HST vs shuttle

[stevem5215]

Nothing against Mahindra in general but I've heard varying stories of varying quality of their tractors. Much like the early chinese ones were where you could get a good one and you'd be fine or you'd get a bad one and it had trouble. Especially was true if your dealer didn't do a good precheck on it and just sent them out the door. That said I have only one other sample machine to compare to this failure. And that was a friend of mine who bought into Mahindra very early on when they started sending them over. He bought one and while it's lightly used he's had trouble with it frequently. A few times it was down for a month or more due some part issue not available or troubleshooting needed to just get it started. Like I said infrequently used as a hobby farmer more than a regular one. Which brings us back to the current situation.... I hope this guy gets his money back without issue. It can be complicated especially with loans through banks and whatnot. But, i do have to wonder that if the dealer tested another whole tractor back at the dealership at one point that was the same model why wouldn't they have just exchanged it at that point ? Seems like it would have been the way to go and then just get Mahindra engineering to solve the issue with the one sitting on the lot instead of pissing off some customer.

Steve

 

[ArlyA]

I'd consider the Mahind brand in the same category as discount chainsaws. (please don't get mad at me!) Yes they cost less but that comes at a price. Less costly machines are made with looser tolerances so they can keep its cost down. That doesn't mean your machine with break 15 minutes after its first started but it was made with 1000+ parts that might not fit perfectly...... Sometime over the machines life, its likely these tolerances will show up.

Nothing against Mahindra in general but I've heard varying stories of varying quality of their tractors. Much like the early chinese ones were where you could get a good one and you'd be fine or you'd get a bad one and it had trouble. Especially was true if your dealer didn't do a good precheck on it and just sent them out the door. That said I have only one other sample machine to compare to this failure. And that was a friend of mine who bought into Mahindra very early on when they started sending them over. He bought one and while it's lightly used he's had trouble with it frequently. A few times it was down for a month or more due some part issue not available or troubleshooting needed to just get it started. Like I said infrequently used as a hobby farmer more than a regular one. Which brings us back to the current situation.... I hope this guy gets his money back without issue. It can be complicated especially with loans through banks and whatnot. But, i do have to wonder that if the dealer tested another whole tractor back at the dealership at one point that was the same model why wouldn't they have just exchanged it at that point ? Seems like it would have been the way to go and then just get Mahindra engineering to solve the issue with the one sitting on the lot instead of pissing off some customer.

Steve

 

[MossRoad]

I'd consider the Mahind brand in the same category as discount chainsaws. (please don't get mad at me!) Yes they cost less but that comes at a price. Less costly machines are made with loser tolerances so they can keep its cost down. That doesn't mean your machine with break 15 minutes after its first started but it was made with 1000+ parts that might not fit perfectly...... Sometime over the machines life, its likely these tolerances will show up.

Loser tolerances?

I hope you mean looser tolerances.... :laughing:

 

[DieselBound]

It's about quality control as much as anything.

NO manufacture has gotten anything correct out of the starting gate. Newer designs and or markets always have bumps. Early adopters shoulder more of the pains, and is why a good dealer is especially important. Dealers are important conduits for feedback to the factory. There is a partnership with these higher cost purchases (vs. some toaster). I stress to my dealer that the least I would like for them to do is to inform the rep of issues so they can keep their ears tuned into a possible issue.

Diagnosing and repairing also requires decent mechanics. Usually folks who look for lower-cost products don't have deeper pockets for higher-end mechanics.

It's really about the support network. This is how Kubota got to be where they are: rated at the top by dealers; this makes for happier customers.

 

[DieselBound]

Loser tolerances?

I hope you mean looser tolerances.... :laughing:

Loser tolerances would likely also be out of spec :laughing:

 

[mike69440]

Loser tolerances would likely also be out of spec :laughing:

Scary thing about Mahindra, (and a lot of other products in general), is lack of integration control of vertical manufacturing and engineering. A bunch of parts slapped together, some good, some not so good, all chosen with saving a penny in mind. A lot of little stuff the details not sweated out like electrical, paint, ergonomics, Use of plastics, weather protection. Some models are quite good, others still good but still have issues, some not so good. Mahindra is improving, but a glacial pace. maybe too may product in their line-up?

 

[DieselBound]

Might be that they take the more reactive approach. That is, look to re-engineer/correct IF there are issues reported by customers. This is, to a degree, OK, but only if a company is aggressive toward rectifying problems: in general it's not a good idea as the further along the manufacturing and sales path you get the more expensive it is to fix a problem. Figure that many of today's better companies are only better because they themselves have learned from their mistakes (and are likely better at being more proactive, looking to stomp a problem earlier on).

Lots comes down to the person in charge of a product line. If that person is able to push hard against the bean-counters then it's likely a good product will be put out earlier than one more tightly controlled by bean-counters.

 

[st8yd]

Did the dealer drop the ball or the manufacturer? It seems to me like there is enough blame for both here, but that most of the responsibility for building it right in the first place or in fixing a mistake ultimately lies more with the manufacturer than the dealer.
When I hear stories like this it is the brand name that suffers the most in my mind.

Frankly I'll probably forget the name of the guy who got shafted, and I'd be unlikely to remember the name of the dealer involved. But I'll certainly remember the brand of tractor involved.

The dealer is a convenient fall guy, but I wonder if he is just caught in the middle without any power to change anything? If I were to condemn dealers, it would be for their general lack to technical ability. That is something under their control that they could easily change.
rScotty

Don't misunderstand me. The manufacturer screwed up, but what manufacturer doesn't (I don't own a Mahindra, have know exp. with it nor do I intend to own one). I am sure some have less mistakes than others.

But it "appears" the dealer gave this fella the run around. I would not be happy putting out that kinda coin on a new tractor and not be able to use it right out of the gate, for that amount of time. In fact, I know I'd be a whole lot more pissed than the op appears to be.

If the dealer was caught in the middle he woulda been smart to show his do diligence in trying to get the manuf. to cooperate.

 

[rScotty]

Don't misunderstand me. The manufacturer screwed up, but what manufacturer doesn't (I don't own a Mahindra, have know exp. with it nor do I intend to own one). I am sure some have less mistakes than others.

But it "appears" the dealer gave this fella the run around. I would not be happy putting out that kinda coin on a new tractor and not be able to use it right out of the gate, for that amount of time. In fact, I know I'd be a whole lot more pissed than the op appears to be.

If the dealer was caught in the middle he woulda been smart to show his do diligence in trying to get the manuf. to cooperate.

I agree, and reading back though Skip's postings about his problems with the tractor and dealer who sold it to him, I don't find anywhere that he says that the dealer was in contact the the manufacturer. So it's possible that the manufacturer was never made aware of the problem.
I wonder what kind of warranty agreement that each manufacturer has with it's dealers? Are they all the same or different? It wouldn't surprise me to find that Warranty support between factory and dealer wasn't the same for every make or even every dealer.
rScotty

 

[goeduck]

Lots comes down to the person in charge of a product line. If that person is able to push hard against the bean-counters then it's likely a good product will be put out earlier than one more tightly controlled by bean-counters.

Exactly. Engineering has to push back as well. This is also very true in many other industries. Bean counting has its place, no business can afford to ignore it, but when the bean counters rule to roost there is big trouble.

 

[Skip77]

Ok this is going to be a long post and I'm hoping to answer a lot of questions everyone has asked.

Yes the tractor failed from the time it was still on the trailer when they delivered it and I contacted the dealer before it was ever unloaded and was promised a service truck the next day to fix it (truck didn't show up until the next week). The owner of the dealership is who I dealt with directly for the majority of this and he did tell me (let me point out here that I did catch him lying to me more than once) that he had contacted corporate early on and was dealing with their engineer but that didn't happen until after I told them that I was done and wanted my money back. At that time I talked to the engineer and the ceo of Mahindra as they called me personally. That entire phone conversation basically boiled down to them admitting that they had a problem but didn't know how to fix it and wanted me to give them more time. I agreed to give them 1 week to give me a answer. 1. fix my tractor and get it back to me in that week, 2. build me a new tractor and ship it out to me to be tested by me at the dealers yard before I would take delivery of it, or 3. to buy back my tractor and I would walk away with no hard feelings. After 2 weeks and me calling the dealer back did they finally give me a answer. They said and I quote " we will just buy back your tractor and leave you free to go buy something else because we don't know what to do to fix the problem and we are afraid that if we just build you a new one that it will have the same problem and then you would be really pissed". I said that would be fine but they wanted to charge me $25.00 per hour that was on the tractor for a usage fee and at that point I exploded and told them to kiss my *** as that tractor had close to 50 hours on it and I hadn't had the tractor long enough to even put 10 on it and that I wasn't paying that. So the dealer tried to come to my farm the next day and pick up all the implements that I had bought with the tractor and I refused to let him take them. I told him that until they buy back the tractor and I have cash in my hand for all 3 payments that I had made that the implements would remain in my barn and he wasn't allowed on my property until that time. He informed me that the buy back was out of his control and he had nothing to do with it and that I just had to wait on corporate. So after a week goes by I call the dealer and he wont take my call or call me back. So the next week I call him and again he wont call me back or take my call so I call corporate and leave a message with them to call me back. I would like to add that by this time the next payment was already overdue and they still hadn't paid it off. So the next day I had my wife try to call the dealer to see if he would answer her and he refused so she called corporate and was able to talk to a lady there who said that nothing had been don't at this time and that they hadn't received anything from the dealer about this. So the lady called the dealer while my wife was on the hold and talked to him the when she gets back on the phone with my wife she informs her that the dealer would be taking care of the buy back and that she had also let her boss know what was going on. Then 2 hours later the dealer calls my wife and says that he didn't call us back because he was still trying to get ahold of corporate and see what was going on and that he had called them (another lie bc they called him) and that he had told them to get on it and to get it all straightened out. At this point Mahindra and the dealer I have been dealing with have basically done jack **** in way of taking care of this matter in a timely and professional manner and you can bet you butt that I will tell everyone to stay away from this brand and dealer (I would say the dealer but know I cant here but I can in a PM if asked). Basically at this point I have found out that the dealer has been lying to me and giving me the run around and corporate was contacted but only months into this ordeal. If I haven't answered your questions let me know and I will try to give you a better answer.

 

[jcummins]

Ok this is going to be a long post and I'm hoping to answer a lot of questions everyone has asked.

Yes the tractor failed from the time it was still on the trailer when they delivered it and I contacted the dealer before it was ever unloaded and was promised a service truck the next day to fix it (truck didn't show up until the next week). The owner of the dealership is who I dealt with directly for the majority of this and he did tell me (let me point out here that I did catch him lying to me more than once) that he had contacted corporate early on and was dealing with their engineer but that didn't happen until after I told them that I was done and wanted my money back. At that time I talked to the engineer and the ceo of Mahindra as they called me personally. That entire phone conversation basically boiled down to them admitting that they had a problem but didn't know how to fix it and wanted me to give them more time. I agreed to give them 1 week to give me a answer. 1. fix my tractor and get it back to me in that week, 2. build me a new tractor and ship it out to me to be tested by me at the dealers yard before I would take delivery of it, or 3. to buy back my tractor and I would walk away with no hard feelings. After 2 weeks and me calling the dealer back did they finally give me a answer. They said and I quote " we will just buy back your tractor and leave you free to go buy something else because we don't know what to do to fix the problem and we are afraid that if we just build you a new one that it will have the same problem and then you would be really pissed". I said that would be fine but they wanted to charge me $25.00 per hour that was on the tractor for a usage fee and at that point I exploded and told them to kiss my *** as that tractor had close to 50 hours on it and I hadn't had the tractor long enough to even put 10 on it and that I wasn't paying that. So the dealer tried to come to my farm the next day and pick up all the implements that I had bought with the tractor and I refused to let him take them. I told him that until they buy back the tractor and I have cash in my hand for all 3 payments that I had made that the implements would remain in my barn and he wasn't allowed on my property until that time. He informed me that the buy back was out of his control and he had nothing to do with it and that I just had to wait on corporate. So after a week goes by I call the dealer and he wont take my call or call me back. So the next week I call him and again he wont call me back or take my call so I call corporate and leave a message with them to call me back. I would like to add that by this time the next payment was already overdue and they still hadn't paid it off. So the next day I had my wife try to call the dealer to see if he would answer her and he refused so she called corporate and was able to talk to a lady there who said that nothing had been don't at this time and that they hadn't received anything from the dealer about this. So the lady called the dealer while my wife was on the hold and talked to him the when she gets back on the phone with my wife she informs her that the dealer would be taking care of the buy back and that she had also let her boss know what was going on. Then 2 hours later the dealer calls my wife and says that he didn't call us back because he was still trying to get ahold of corporate and see what was going on and that he had called them (another lie bc they called him) and that he had told them to get on it and to get it all straightened out. At this point Mahindra and the dealer I have been dealing with have basically done jack **** in way of taking care of this matter in a timely and professional manner and you can bet you butt that I will tell everyone to stay away from this brand and dealer (I would say the dealer but know I cant here but I can in a PM if asked). Basically at this point I have found out that the dealer has been lying to me and giving me the run around and corporate was contacted but only months into this ordeal. If I haven't answered your questions let me know and I will try to give you a better answer.

Lay it out in writing the terms YOU want...give them a deadline, and if they miss it...and tell them this...you are contacting a lawyer. UNTIL...you firm up they are going to jack you around.

 

[Skip77]

Lay it out in writing the terms YOU want...give them a deadline, and if they miss it...and tell them this...you are contacting a lawyer. UNTIL...you firm up they are going to jack you around.

Basically that's exactly what happened to get them to agree to buy the tractor back. I gave them a list of options or demands however you want to look at it and told them they had to sign it agreeing to it (and he did) but he didn't get anything done so I told him he had until the end of the business day to get me a answer about getting a new tractor or buying mine back or the next person they talked to about this wouldn't be me and within the hour I had my answer.