Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right.

   / Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right. #51  
I used to think there should be a correlation between the value of work performed and the compensation paid for that work. Part of the problem there is that someone besides me gets to define "value of work performed". Since various people who use sticks to knock balls around are paid more for the value of their work performed than Edison made in his lifetime (I'm shooting from the hip here, but I bet I'm not far off), I've decided I am no proper judge of any supposed correlation.

Chuck
 
   / Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right. #52  
Before I give my opinion on what has happened to our country I would like to thank cat driver for making a list of some of the companies that have moved their manufacturing out of this country, but that is just a partial listing I feel it is much larger than that. What has happened to our country the workers in these foreign countries work for far less than the USA workers do but when they buy anything they can buy it according to the cost of living in that country, that is how our country used to be run, but now these foreign country workers are running their factories at full capacity which in turn makes the cost of producing their product go even farther down. There is a society of people in our country that are in my opinion either stupid or they are committing treason in tenor even if it don't fit the current law that we have because they are looking at a market where the cost of living is very high, that is because the standard of living is high the wages are high and they are not looking at what the end result of what they are doing is going to be. They realize that they can get the product produced over seas for a fraction of the cost considering that there are no enviornmental restrictions no worker safety standards to meet and the wages are low. When they get these products and bring them over here they can undercut the prices of our goods and then we have lay offs at our factories which cause the cost of production to go up because the factory isn't producing at full capacity and they are then higher costs for that factory, our factories have to meet governmental guidelines for safety in the work place environmental restrictions and a higher wage structure according to the cost of living here. When the cost of products made in the USA go up then these in my opinion traitors can raise the price of their imported product. I am not faulting the foreign workers they are people just like we are trying to support their family. But as our manufacturing capabilities shrink the manufacturing capabilities of our competitors increase. We are retreating out of the industrialized market and out of the high tech market. Some of the skilled jobs that used to be done in our country the workers that used to do them are getting old and retiring or unfortunately dieing off and there is no one teaching our young people to do their jobs. As advancements are made with less and less in put from our people our nation becomes closer and closer to the point of no return. If we don't soon quite looking at someone's salary that we think is too high and start looking at the real problem we are headed for a calamity. Let me tell you something about that man that is earning $70,000 a year doing a job that you don't think he ought to be making, he has to buy a house in the market where he is working and making that much money, and he has living expenses also according to that market. Some have said that college graduates should make more than a skilled worker that has also learned and honed his skills all his life also in on the job problem solving, as well as self training and has capabilities of doing anything the company needs done, I don't think his pay should be any less than a college graduate. If you look at the ones that have been making all these head busting decisions that have driven our country down the tubes I would say that 90% or more have a college degree, so I don't think they should be making 400 times what the average worker at their company is making. But that is not all we should be looking at, businesses should be run as businesses but governments should be ran as a government and not as a business and I think that has been the biggest cause of this delima that we find ourselves in now. And back to businesses having ceo's that have no idea about the company he is running, about the nuts and bolts of it, and they have no real passion for their product and no real loyalty to it, they are more interested in their own ego than the company seems to me like he is a poor prospect for a ceo. I think that a ceo should have a real background in the business from the ground up and a passion for it. If grand pa worked there and told his stories and dad worked there and had shared his experiences and Junior worked there some as he went to college and learned his own experiences and was promoted on up that makes more sense than what is going on now. And speaking of colleges I think from what we have seen from the ivy league colleges recently I think maybe we ought to give some of the kids a chance that had to go to community colleges and maybe later expanded their education at a quality university, because the ivy leagers of late are more like a mascot than a real contender.

I am so totally in agreement with this statement.
 
   / Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right. #53  
+1....but....what a hard read without paragraphs. :rolleyes:

Somewhere in the middle of the text was a statement that concerns me greatly.....as we lose our technitions due to old age.....who is going to teach the young people these on the job skills? :confused: Losing some of these skills (like toolmaking) for generations to come makes me sick.

I can remember as a kid...."everything" was made in New York, NY. It seems we started moving things overseas with televisions and microwave ovens. Now, while the "Asian move" has been going on for over 25 years.....our USA workers were able to move to the next job and then the next.....until their are too few jobs left to move to. Now What??? :eek:


I think we (the USA) shot ourselves in both feet. :mad:
 
   / Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right. #54  
If the CEO doesn't get anything from his stock option unless the stock price increases, then he has incentive to do things to make the stock price increase. I've never seen a risk adjusted option agreement that reduced the number of available shares based on the executive taking on additional risks with the corporation's assets. [Maybe somebody will read about it here, and it will be the next "in thing" in corporate finance....] He didn't buy those options with his hard earned dollars. So he doesn't have the same adversity to risk that a shareholder who invested his own cash would have. I've gotten stock from options. It's gravy if you can get it, but it's not like investing your own dollars.

The professors I would have fired were flakes, although I suspect that a conservative professor would get fired more quickly than a liberal professor. A university may be able to confer a degree, but it can't confer common sense.
 
   / Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right. #55  
Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right.

If I never saw another of those overwidth, overheight, overweight roadhogs on US highways it would be soon enough. Just the other day some overpaid imbecile was tooling up 4th st on his cellphone. Spent about 70% of 8 blocks with the right hand tires wearing down the lane markers between the two lanes.

My only concern in this mess is for the US Military
 
   / Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right. #56  
He didn't buy those options with his hard earned dollars.

But he did. During negotiations they said he's going to get a salary of $www, a bonus on the order of xx%, yyy shares of stock, and zzz stock options. Each of these has a value and is negotiable, it's just that everything save the salary has a value that changes depending on how well the stock does so it takes skill (and frequently a dedicated accountant) to assess their value. If the CEO (or common employee, we get options and stock grants as well) values the options at $100 he is giving up $100 in salary to get those options. If he wanted to he could turn down the options and ask for the $100 and the board could counter that offer. Just because he didn't get handed a wad of money and then hand it right back again to get the options doesn't mean he hasn't spent it.

Now the board would rather give him options because it is incentive for him to boost the company's stock (which is sometimes very different than improving the company) and because the assessed value is frequently higher than their total cost. In other words, that $100 assessed value of options may only cost the company $20 of real money if they do things properly, so even if they gave him $30 in cash it would be a net loss. Of course, if he takes the $100 worth of options and the stock tanks because he screws up he's now got nothing.

Also remember that you, too, can buy GM options. Options are for sale to anyone who wants them so if you'd like to trade some of your salary for GM options just talk to your broker. Needless to say the calculations that go into the future valuation of stocks and options is comparable to calculating the odds in a horserace, but the ability to calculate these things is another reason why C-level execs get paid well.
 
   / Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right. #57  
My only concern in this mess is for the US Military

As has already been posted in this thread, and lots of other places, HMMVs are made by AM General not GM. In other words, the US Military will not be affected.

I wonder how many others have this same wrong idea, as wrong as assuming CEOs sit on the boards of each others companies. Geez, where do people come up with this stuff.:confused::rolleyes::eek:

Q: Why are CEOs of publicly traded companies focused on stock prices?
A: Because they get stock options.

Q: Why do they get stock options?
A: Because some 'experts' decided to limit how much of their salary could be tax deductible to the company.

Q: So, if you're a mid to large company how are you going to attract a CEO when you can't offer them a larger salary than all your competitors?
A: Stock options and bonuses.

The law of unintended consequences when some people decide to micromanage the economy because they are besieged by uninformed people whining about CEO pay.
 
   / Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right. #58  
There's plenty of reason to be critical of executive pay when the executives make stupid business decisions resulting in a huge decline in stock value. It's not like the guys in the mail room put on suits, borrowed the corporate jet, flew out to California, negotiated a purchase, told the corporate lawyers how to write up the deal and file the SEC proxy statements and then used the company stock transfer agent to pay for the deal. The guys in the mail room have better sense.
 
   / Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right. #59  
Not too hard to tell white collar from blue in here. :cool:
 
   / Hummer is now Chinese....just doesn't sound right. #60  
If I never saw another of those overwidth, overheight, overweight roadhogs on US highways it would be soon enough. Just the other day some overpaid imbecile was tooling up 4th st on his cellphone. Spent about 70% of 8 blocks with the right hand tires wearing down the lane markers between the two lanes.

So he is automatically an overpaid imbecile beause he drives a Hummer? :confused:
 

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