I hate oil.. I look like a chimney sweep and smell like a diesel mechanic. I still deal with the office/ plant a/c [almost/cooling] RTU's due to [in my opinion] bad work done by a local contractor but all except 3 are 7 tons of cooling or better.[I was to lazy to type out all of what you did] other than these units the smallest twin screw compressor I deal with is 125 hp the biggest 1000 hp.[ now that I've bragged about the size of my equipment..lol] back to the issue at hand. I have seen 20 year old techs thatwere excellent, and 60 year old techs. that were lucky to be able to tie thir shoes. If it's free you get what you pay for. Charge and airflow are critical on heatpumps since the evaporator and condenser coils switch roles between heating and cooling.[for example a n under charged sys. will heat fine.but will freeze the indoor coil in the cooling mode. I don't think its the reversing valve since these types of solenoid valvesare very quite except for the hiss as the gas changes directions. sounds more to me like a relay of some type.{which one is the big question.] if you could answer 50% of sig's questions, we would be at least 25% ahead of what most standard hvac techs. are..... do you have a way to isolate what is clicking?? My first assumption from your decription and based on the previous hitory provided is that you still have a refg. leak and your charge is low[excluding dirty filters, dirty indoor coil, improperly sized duct work etc..] way too much to try and detail at this time. if you could determin what is making the noise with line voltage off would help greatly.
HVAC question...
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
- Views: 3508
Sigarms
Super Member
Richard, out of curiosity, do you have another HVAC system or is the only one you have? If you have another, is it from the same manufacturer, and have you had any problems out of that one (if it deed exists)? I ask because you mentioned that you have a unit upstairs and a unit downstairs. I'm not asking for this particular issue (the "clicking") however I was wondering if you did indeed have two seperate systems, how do they compare in preformace against each other?
By the way, thinking about it this morning, was not a crankcase heater that started that heat pump that I mentioned about previously, but a hard start kit.
Majik, you're a better man than I!
By the way, thinking about it this morning, was not a crankcase heater that started that heat pump that I mentioned about previously, but a hard start kit.
Majik, you're a better man than I!
Last edited:
Jagmandave
Veteran Member
Majik,
I have ammonia refrigeration in my plant, works pretty good too, We only have a 60 ton unit right now, but are getting ready to up it to about 120 ton for some expansion of out plant. We only run to about -30* tho........
Meanwhile, back to Richard's problem.........I think you should get your buddy's home phone number and see if he'll drive back over and check it out for you again.....
I have ammonia refrigeration in my plant, works pretty good too, We only have a 60 ton unit right now, but are getting ready to up it to about 120 ton for some expansion of out plant. We only run to about -30* tho........
Meanwhile, back to Richard's problem.........I think you should get your buddy's home phone number and see if he'll drive back over and check it out for you again.....
OP
Richard
Elite Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,974
- Location
- Knoxville, TN
- Tractor
- International 1066 Full sized JCB Loader/Backhoe and a John Deere 430 to mow with
Sigarms said:
For those curious as to what the clicking is... as long as I turn the breaker off, is there any major issue (risk) of me taking a panel off to see what's on the other side? Logic tells me there isn't but then, when I was a kid, logic told me to stick a screwdriver into a live wall outlet...
tallyho8
Elite Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2004
- Messages
- 4,530
- Tractor
- Kubota L4400, Kubota ZD326
Under the right conditions, a start or run capacitor can hold a charge for quite a while after the electricity is turned off and if touched can give you quite a jolt. Though I have had contact with many of them in my years of a/c work, none has had the power to do me in, but have caused severe head injuries when I jump and hit my head on something.
Though I have had contact with many of them in my years of a/c work, none has had the power to do me in, but have caused severe head injuries when I jump and hit my head on something.
OP
Richard
Elite Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,974
- Location
- Knoxville, TN
- Tractor
- International 1066 Full sized JCB Loader/Backhoe and a John Deere 430 to mow with
I called them this morning and they're going to be coming back out. I conveyed the observations I've noticed to the guy so that Charlie (the guy who came out) can hopefully have a heads up prior to his arrival.
Here's a hijack of my own thread...
Down the road "X" number of years, when it's time to replace this system... will I be able to hire someone and buy product "X" and them come out and simply swap out the handler and compressor with my current units?
In part, what I"m asking is, will all the hoses, power lines, low voltage lines stay the same and simply those two main units flipped out?
Here's a hijack of my own thread...
Down the road "X" number of years, when it's time to replace this system... will I be able to hire someone and buy product "X" and them come out and simply swap out the handler and compressor with my current units?
In part, what I"m asking is, will all the hoses, power lines, low voltage lines stay the same and simply those two main units flipped out?
kenmac
Super Member
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2005
- Messages
- 9,825
- Location
- The Heart of Dixie
- Tractor
- McCormick CX105 Kubota MX 5100 HST, Kubota ZD1021, Kawsaki Mule 4010 trans 4x4
I don't know if this has been suggested or not but, could the clicking be that you have a low pressure switch & the compressor is turning on & off due to the low pressure ??
You might find someone to swap air handler & compressor But I wouldn't do it . You may end up having more $ in a pieced together system ,possibly no warranty . You would be better off to replace all with an upgraded 13 or better seer rating
You might find someone to swap air handler & compressor But I wouldn't do it . You may end up having more $ in a pieced together system ,possibly no warranty . You would be better off to replace all with an upgraded 13 or better seer rating
Sigarms
Super Member
Richard, do you want to replace the entire air handler and condensing unit, or just the coil and compressor. Apologies, not sure per the way you worded it.
13 SEER is now the minimum rating that must be installed (unless you find someone who actually has a 10 or 12 SEER unit left, but then I've found that they will "bend you over" because they are the only ones who have one left).
If your unit is indeed a Coleman, not sure per the model numbers you listed, however a guess would lead me to believe that you don't have a 13 SEER unit that you're having issues with.
If you have a 10 SEER indoor coil and want to change just the outdoor unit, you MUST change both the outdoor and indoor unit to 13 SEER if you want them to work properly, and in most cases, stay under the manufacturers wrty.
I should also note that is only my opinion that you should have an ARI manufacturers "matched" system install at the same time (which means both the indoor and outdoor unit come from the same manufacturer, that is rated by the manufacturer).
A compressor changeout can get expensive just for the labor even if the compressor is still under wrty.
Air handlers? Depending on the location, labor can get up there as well. My uspstairs system was a PAIN in the butt. No way I could do it myself, I did it "above" board and got "legal" help. Complete system changeout, 56 man hour labors. If I had a couple of buddies help me, they wouldn't of been my friends after the job would of been done. Keep in mind, due to the 13 SEER being the minimum now, coil surface area has increased, meaning that with some of the manufacturers indoor lines, the equipment has gotten bigger. Perhaps not a problem, however, for myself, I only had 14" in width to get the equipment into the attic without cutting into the ceiling. Made it interesting. I also miss "up north" where everything is in the basement in an upflow configuration where you have lots of room to work.
That said, since you were able to have both systems replaced about the same time, I'm assuming there was no PITA work that needs to be done.
Depending on the BTU's of the system, you may have to change your lineset size (because of the SEER rating or manufacturer), which could be a pain in the butt as well (yes, LONG story, I went from 3/8"X3/4" to 1/2"X7/8", but this was a VERY long run, and for you HVAC guys out there, the liquid line was per the manufacturers engineering sp? department that I doubled checked with, it was correct).
With the pricing of copper, I almost fell over dead when I looked to see what I had to pay just for the lineset for my job. I already paid for my downstairs lineset a couple of months ago (that system will need to be replaced in a couple of years or so) because copper just keeps going through the roof (from a year or so ago, I'd guess by at least 50%).
I'd also look to go to a R410A system. R-22 just had one of the BIGGEST price increases that I've ever seen (we're talking like over 30%!, all you guys out there, I'd call if you haven't). Give it a couple of years, R410A will be less than R-22.
EDIT, after doing the math, at least from one major manufacturer, the price increase on R22 will be more than 30% easily.
http://members.cox.net/jamesmcalm/Calm_Domanski-R-22_Replacement_Status-EcoLibrium-2004.pdf
13 SEER is now the minimum rating that must be installed (unless you find someone who actually has a 10 or 12 SEER unit left, but then I've found that they will "bend you over" because they are the only ones who have one left).
If your unit is indeed a Coleman, not sure per the model numbers you listed, however a guess would lead me to believe that you don't have a 13 SEER unit that you're having issues with.
If you have a 10 SEER indoor coil and want to change just the outdoor unit, you MUST change both the outdoor and indoor unit to 13 SEER if you want them to work properly, and in most cases, stay under the manufacturers wrty.
I should also note that is only my opinion that you should have an ARI manufacturers "matched" system install at the same time (which means both the indoor and outdoor unit come from the same manufacturer, that is rated by the manufacturer).
A compressor changeout can get expensive just for the labor even if the compressor is still under wrty.
Air handlers? Depending on the location, labor can get up there as well. My uspstairs system was a PAIN in the butt. No way I could do it myself, I did it "above" board and got "legal" help. Complete system changeout, 56 man hour labors. If I had a couple of buddies help me, they wouldn't of been my friends after the job would of been done. Keep in mind, due to the 13 SEER being the minimum now, coil surface area has increased, meaning that with some of the manufacturers indoor lines, the equipment has gotten bigger. Perhaps not a problem, however, for myself, I only had 14" in width to get the equipment into the attic without cutting into the ceiling. Made it interesting. I also miss "up north" where everything is in the basement in an upflow configuration where you have lots of room to work.
That said, since you were able to have both systems replaced about the same time, I'm assuming there was no PITA work that needs to be done.
Depending on the BTU's of the system, you may have to change your lineset size (because of the SEER rating or manufacturer), which could be a pain in the butt as well (yes, LONG story, I went from 3/8"X3/4" to 1/2"X7/8", but this was a VERY long run, and for you HVAC guys out there, the liquid line was per the manufacturers engineering sp? department that I doubled checked with, it was correct).
With the pricing of copper, I almost fell over dead when I looked to see what I had to pay just for the lineset for my job. I already paid for my downstairs lineset a couple of months ago (that system will need to be replaced in a couple of years or so) because copper just keeps going through the roof (from a year or so ago, I'd guess by at least 50%).
I'd also look to go to a R410A system. R-22 just had one of the BIGGEST price increases that I've ever seen (we're talking like over 30%!, all you guys out there, I'd call if you haven't). Give it a couple of years, R410A will be less than R-22.
EDIT, after doing the math, at least from one major manufacturer, the price increase on R22 will be more than 30% easily.
http://members.cox.net/jamesmcalm/Calm_Domanski-R-22_Replacement_Status-EcoLibrium-2004.pdf
Last edited:
OP
Richard
Elite Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 4,974
- Location
- Knoxville, TN
- Tractor
- International 1066 Full sized JCB Loader/Backhoe and a John Deere 430 to mow with
Update:
I called them today & gave them the clicking symptoms. Something which I didn't notice prior to him coming out the other day.
He was in the field, called his home base and said to look the model number up and get some kind of printed circuit board.
He got to my house and they gave him the board for the BIG unit and not the small unit
He's got to come back with the right part tomorrow.
At least the problem (clicking) was seen/heard by him!!
I called them today & gave them the clicking symptoms. Something which I didn't notice prior to him coming out the other day.
He was in the field, called his home base and said to look the model number up and get some kind of printed circuit board.
He got to my house and they gave him the board for the BIG unit and not the small unit
He's got to come back with the right part tomorrow.
At least the problem (clicking) was seen/heard by him!!
Sigarms
Super Member
Please let us know how this plays out, it could be interesting.
