Hydraulic brakes....

[JoeinTX]

I've been looking at 16' trailers (rail and car hauler) but I don't see any new ones equipped with hydraulic tongue brakes..........only electric. Does anyone know of a trailer like this being made with them or as an option?


I've looked at the possibility of buying a hydro hitch and converting the brakes over but if anyone is making them that would save the trouble.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Very few have Hydraulic Surge Brakes but I have seen them. The reason electric brakes are used is they are much cheaper and in the long run much less maintenance. I deal with hydraulic surge brakes on a weekly basis in my marine business and while they work good in this application the electric brakes are much better for the reason of maintenance, will allow you to have brakes backing up, and just plain more common. I am seeing electric brakes more and more on boat aplications along with the dreaded electric over hydraulic setup which uses a electric brake controller in the truck with a electric hydraulic pump on the trailers tongue with hydraulic brakes the rest of the way back. Hate them, 2 systems to now maintain.

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

You want surge brakes? yuck!

buy an old uhaul trailer... they got those yucky brakes on them...

soundguy

 

[LBrown59]

* I've been looking at 16' trailers (rail and car hauler) but I don't see any new ones equipped with hydraulic tongue brakes..........only electric. Does anyone know of a trailer like this being made with them or as an option?


I've looked at the possibility of buying a hydro hitch and converting the brakes over but if anyone is making them that would save the trouble.

Two thots.
A*Why would you want Hyd. brakes?
B*Make sure Rails are removable /not fixed.

 

[Renze]

You want surge brakes? yuck!

In Europe, they say the same thing about electric brakes... bowden cable operated surge brakes are standard here.
It all depends on the knowledge and experience of the serviceman i guess.

 

[gordyy]

worked for a uhaul dealer in the 70s we did a lot of service on the hydralic brakes
I actually think they are better than electric BUT like said above they have to be maintained and maintained right.
I think half of them we seviced had shoddy work done on them before making them useless
but the nice thing about them is the electrical connection never fails

 

[Soundguy]

Even if my electric controller dies.. I can make my electric brakes, in an emergency, work with a piece of wire and a cig ligher plug..... can't say that on hyd brakes...

soundguy

 

[Diamondpilot]

I deal with hydraulic brakes 75% of the time I tow which is about 45-50 different trailers per year about 5,000 miles or more, could be as much as 10,000 miles some years and I have no problems. Now that being said I have electric brakes on my car haul trailer I use about 1,000 miles per year. While I have never had any problems with them either I do believe they are more prone to having problems but the maintenance is more do-it-yourself freindly.

Both have the good and the bad.

Electric:

Cheap
Work in Reverse
Wiring problems are common

Hydraulic:
More water proof
Less prone to problems(No wiring connections to go bad)
Cost much much more than electric
Can be used with any vehicle
Longer maintenance intervals (5 years on average)

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

While I have never had any problems with them either I do believe they are more prone to having problems but the maintenance is more do-it-yourself freindly.
Chris

Hey man.. you should run for office with a double-talk statement like that.

I've never had problems with electric brakes.. but i believe they are prone to have problems..

soundguy

( i can fix a oose wire onthe side of the road with a pocket knife and e-tape.. I can't fix a split hyd line ont e sid eof the road with a pocket knife and e-tape! )

 

[mwb]

Electric controllers have come a long way so today's comparision probably should favor them over hydraulic. I believe that the hydraulic was far superior to electric for proportional breaking 20 years ago but the new electrics with accelerometers and smarts do a better job of emulating the hydraulic ones.

One downside to hydraulic is that they 'work' in reverse; if you try backing up a hill the brakes come on. There might be an override to disable them but then they don't work at all.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Hey man.. you should run for office with a double-talk statement like that.

I've never had problems with electric brakes.. but i believe they are prone to have problems..

soundguy

( i can fix a oose wire onthe side of the road with a pocket knife and e-tape.. I can't fix a split hyd line ont e sid eof the road with a pocket knife and e-tape! )

Yea, I am getting ready for the call from Obama. I guess what I should have said is the magnets go bad, wires corrode and chafe, ect. Hydraulic brakes have automotive grade lines that last many many years. While the will fail, and I have had one do so when a tire blew and took out the line, its rare just like on a car. Every 5 years or so have a tech inspect the caliapers and pads or shoes and cylinders and bleed the system and its ready to roll.

By the way for the last 6 or so years most of what I am selling has disc brakes that are surge. 20 times better than the drums. And man do they ever have stoping power. I tried to back up a 7,000# boat on a slight incline with my 2006 f-350 Powerstorke. Even in 4 low it was spinning the tires. Many of the old actuators had a lockout pin you could install for this situation but many do not anymore. The have a reverse lock out selonoid that activates when the reverse light come on via the center pin on a standard 7 round plug. This trailer in question did not have one. I installed one the next week.

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

One downside to hydraulic is that they 'work' in reverse; if you try backing up a hill the brakes come on. There might be an override to disable them but then they don't work at all.

Yep.. I've seent he ones with the flip levers for reverse.. but then ya got no brakes... not ideal..

soundguy

 

[Iplayfarmer]

One pitch for E-brakes is that you can use the slider bar to correct a fishtail.

 

[Soundguy]

Bigtime!

or stop the tow vehicle when it's brakes fail completely!

soundguy

 

[franklinute]

I have an 18' equipment trailer with surge brakes and I give them a big two thumb up! Very reliable, and if adjusted properly work very well. On electric brakes a weak link in your electrical connections and you may not have brakes when you need them. Some states have gone back and forth if hydraulic brakes are legal or not on commercial trailers. The only problem I have had is with a heavy load backing up a slight grade or backing up in soft soil the brakes will apply. I have seen a few trailers that have a lockout pin but mine doesn't have that feature.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have an 18' equipment trailer with surge brakes and I give them a big two thumb up! Very reliable, and if adjusted properly work very well. On electric brakes a weak link in your electrical connections and you may not have brakes when you need them. Some states have gone back and forth if hydraulic brakes are legal or not on commercial trailers. The only problem I have had is with a heavy load backing up a slight grade or backing up in soft soil the brakes will apply. I have seen a few trailers that have a lockout pin but mine doesn't have that feature.

Look into a lock out solenoid. It is a lock out that that is electrically acuated via the reverse lights on the tow vehicle. Cost about $30. Goes in the hydro line between the master cylinder and the solid steel brake line. Is wired to the 7 round plug on the center pin. Works slick and you never have to leave the comfort of your truck to lock out the brakes.

Chris

 

[Soundguy]

I have an 18' equipment trailer with surge brakes and I give them a big two thumb up! Very reliable, and if adjusted properly work very well. On electric brakes a weak link in your electrical connections and you may not have brakes when you need them. Some states have gone back and forth if hydraulic brakes are legal or not on commercial trailers. The only problem I have had is with a heavy load backing up a slight grade or backing up in soft soil the brakes will apply. I have seen a few trailers that have a lockout pin but mine doesn't have that feature.

So why would you say 'adjusted properly' they work well.. then point to a maintenance issue on electric brakes.

My answer is that 'prperly maintained'.. the electrical connections are fine.. just takes a lil dab of grease to prevent corrosion.. etc... and inspection before you use them.. just like wet brake..

tit for tat

soudnguy

 

[Renze]

Yep.. I've seent he ones with the flip levers for reverse.. but then ya got no brakes... not ideal..

soundguy

Most European surge brakes have "backmatic" brakes, it automatically releases when the directon of turning is reversed. the Knott system works perfectly, the Al-Ko system gets stuck. Most sane folks dont reverse fast enough to actually need trailer brakes in reverse.
We used to weld the backmatic shut when these 1800 kg axles were used on an air braked 5th wheel, with 2 or 3 axles.

 

[Soundguy]

Most European surge brakes have "backmatic" brakes, it automatically releases when the directon of turning is reversed. the Knott system works perfectly, the Al-Ko system gets stuck. Most sane folks dont reverse fast enough to actually need trailer brakes in reverse.
We used to weld the backmatic shut when these 1800 kg axles were used on an air braked 5th wheel, with 2 or 3 axles.

Sanity has -0- to do with needing brakes in reverse.

what if you were backing a trailer down an incline and your truck brakes failed. .sanity would be having trailer brakes to help stop you...

soundguy

 

[Renze]

what if you were backing a trailer down an incline and your truck brakes failed. .sanity would be having trailer brakes to help stop you...

Have you ever experienced a total failure of BOTH brake circuits on your truck ??? you'd be the first i'd hear it from.

You might as well haul your empty tandem hauler to church at sunday, as an extra safety measure, just in case the brakes of your truck fail when reversing off the parking lot...