Hydraulic Hose

/ Hydraulic Hose #1  

Spudland_Dave

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
1,499
Location
Maine
Tractor
Deere 3520 Cab, Deere F935
How interchangeable are hoses/hose ends? Reason I ask is in the past I've just gone to my NAPA for custom hoses...they do good work, but man does it hurt the ol pocketbook (78.00 for 2, 3' hoses last time)...Working on my hydraulic chute rotator for the snowblower and i'll need a couple hoses... I dont really want to pile on the fittings to make a pre-made assembly work as a)it looks cheap and b) ends up being more expensive when you need 15 fittings to get a "cheaper" hose assembly to work....when I say cheap I dont mean quality, I mean in price...
I can get "Apache Hose & Belting" 3/8" 2 wire 4000 work PSI hose with 3/8" NPTM fittings 10' long for $25.00, 3/8" NPTM fits the bill for one end of my project, but not the other...could I just buy the 10' piece, cut it to where I need it and then have my NAPA Crimp on the ends I need?
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #2  
Any reputable hydraulic shop will NOT mix manufacturers of fittings and hoses. It's a compatibility and liability thing.
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #3  
I had a 3 foot(1/4" id") had made up for about 10$ at one of the local auto stores. I would think that you would want a smaller hase for directional control(to manage speed). The end fittings are the most expensive part.\

I'd shop around, and use as small of hose as practical.

Chris
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #4  
Dave, try not to take this wrong, but the reason you have to pay more from that guy at the Napa is he has to stock all those parts, the machine, the hose etc. etc.

You can get the "right" piece from him, and pay the premium, or shop internet etc. and get the not quite piece at a lesser price.

How much should he charge you for putting on that end after you bought the pieces somewhere else?

Pay the man the going rate, or deal with the adapters etc.

Not that I do any better, I still agonize and get aggravated over it every time I deal with either side of the same decision.
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #5  
Yeah Dave, you definitely want to use 1/4" hose like Chris said, there is no need for 3/8" hose on a chute rotator.

I bought 2 hoses today, 1/4" one 51", one 62", NPT on one end and a 90* JIC on the other for $70.00. ANYTHING to do with hydraulics is expensive:eek:

You could also call DHH and get a price
 
/ Hydraulic Hose
  • Thread Starter
#6  
I was planning on going with 1/4" but the price of 3/8's was good....I got a Parker F400S flow control valve I'm gonna use to fine tune the speed right where I want it...so other then price, hose size wasnt gonna be an issue.
I totally understand that Hydraulics are expensive....I finally mounted the Hyd Motor and stuff today and got an accurate measurement of what I need now so I went on Surplus Center and priced it all out...with fittings, etc.. I ended up with a 66.00 order... At that price, I might as well head on up to Napa tomorrow and get exactly what I want right tomorrow.

As far as pressing on an end...last time I went in there I went in with a hose I already had and said "I need one just like this except 12" shorter" and HE offered to cut & press a new end on....

Thanks for talking guys....gonna go get my hoses tomorrow...

Man I love TBN!
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #7  
Any reputable hydraulic shop will NOT mix manufacturers of fittings and hoses. It's a compatibility and liability thing.
Fortunately, my NAPA store will if the hoses are within close dimension of the nominal hose. I have had a couple custom made that way from stock made up hose from Surplus Center. They have some real nice 3/8 hose rated at 4500PSI.
larry
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #8  
Fortunately, my NAPA store will if the hoses are within close dimension of the nominal hose. I have had a couple custom made that way from stock made up hose from Surplus Center. They have some real nice 3/8 hose rated at 4500PSI.
larry

Your local NAPA does this because at best they are morons. There are some NAPA stores with knowledgable employees, but generally their counter guys are known as one step above McDonalds french fry makers.

Almost all hose with the same 100R # have the same I.D. and O.D. but that does not mean that the crimp fitting will hold on it. Most NAPA's carry either Gates or Weatherhead hose. If either of them found out that a NAPA does what you say they do, they would get a serious talking to. Like Kenny said, no reputable shop does this.
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #9  
Your local NAPA does this because at best they are morons. There are some NAPA stores with knowledgable employees, but generally their counter guys are known as one step above McDonalds french fry makers.

Almost all hose with the same 100R # have the same I.D. and O.D. but that does not mean that the crimp fitting will hold on it. Most NAPA's carry either Gates or Weatherhead hose. If either of them found out that a NAPA does what you say they do, they would get a serious talking to. Like Kenny said, no reputable shop does this.
Its not rocket science. Problems are obvious. What other problems do you foresee other than ID/OD and # braids?
larry
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #10  
Its not rocket science. Problems are obvious. What other problems do you foresee other than ID/OD and # braids?
larry

Some manufacturers make their crimps to bite the hose covering and some are made to bite the wire. If you mix the two, you are looking for disaster. Even though the ID and OD may be the same, the distance of the wire braid to each varies between hose manufacturers and that's where the problem comes in. ID and OD are such a minor part of that whole equation. It's what is inbetween the ID and OD that matters.
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #11  
Some manufacturers make their crimps to bite the hose covering and some are made to bite the wire. If you mix the two, you are looking for disaster. Even though the ID and OD may be the same, the distance of the wire braid to each varies between hose manufacturers and that's where the problem comes in. ID and OD are such a minor part of that whole equation. It's what is inbetween the ID and OD that matters.
Thanks - with focus, that difference should be easy enuf to see in comparison. Ill keep my eye out and also speak to the NAPA guy about it.
larry
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #12  
You fellas should check out some of the local semi truck dealers, Freightliner, International, etc. Many farmers use our shop as Napa's prices are rediculious.
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #13  
I always read these threads because as most people I'm looking for ways to save a dollar where ever I can. So here is a scenario, I go online to Discount Hydraulic Hose.com and purchase bulk hose and connectors from them, then take the length and connectors I need to NAPA or to a hydraulic shop and have them made up. I'm going to guess someone is going to say since you can't confirm they use the "right" crimping too it wont be guaranteed. If you know the brand of hose and the brand of connectors then you should be able to find a shop that has the right "tool"

Or you can go to Surplus Center and get hose within a few inches and make them yourself.

I just had two 8' hoses made and it cost almost $150.00 Those same hoses could have been purchase at TSC, RuralKing, Surplus Center and countless other place for about $50. Why the huge cost difference.

Wedge


Wedge
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #14  
I always read these threads because as most people I'm looking for ways to save a dollar where ever I can. So here is a scenario, I go online to Discount Hydraulic Hose.com and purchase bulk hose and connectors from them, then take the length and connectors I need to NAPA or to a hydraulic shop and have them made up. I'm going to guess someone is going to say since you can't confirm they use the "right" crimping too it wont be guaranteed. If you know the brand of hose and the brand of connectors then you should be able to find a shop that has the right "tool"

Or you can go to Surplus Center and get hose within a few inches and make them yourself.

I just had two 8' hoses made and it cost almost $150.00 Those same hoses could have been purchase at TSC, RuralKing, Surplus Center and countless other place for about $50. Why the huge cost difference.

Wedge


Wedge

If it were my commercial shop, and you wanted to bring your hose you bought elsewhere and have me crimp, you would probably keep walking.

But either way, I have been down both sides, and the price difference I usually come down too is I am comparing Base line, fixed length, pipe thread ends made in India, then I need to buy a couple adapter's it seems every time, to a Made in the USA, exact fit, exact replacement, screw onto the equipment with no extra parts hose, that in my experience has outlasted the indian RK or TSC hose on the other side of the loader.

The other reason I end up back at the hydraulic shop paying thier premium is that it seems every time I try and shortcut with TSC and RK, I end up running between the two trying to find enough of the right adapters to make things work and it never fails I come up one short, and end up at the hydraulics place in the end.
 
/ Hydraulic Hose
  • Thread Starter
#15  
You fellas should check out some of the local semi truck dealers, Freightliner, International, etc. Many farmers use our shop as Napa's prices are rediculious.

I'm slowly finding that out....Just this AM I was out getting coffee with one of my buds here at work...we were shootin the bull about the fabirc Hose Sleeves....he said the Construction company he used to work for always used the local "Parker Store"....so we swung by....got 10' of hose sleeve and for kicks I priced out one of the hoses I bought at NAPA yesterday.... Quite a bit cheaper....only difference really was this was a Parker hose & Fittings and NAPA uses Eaton/Weatherhead....IMO Both top shelf brands.
I would have thought that a "Specialty Store" would be more expensive, but thats not the case...
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #16  
Ugh. That's my reaction from reading a lot of this.

Larry, you can not tell if two different manufacturers hoses will interchange by looking at them. My Weatherhead crimps have a tolerance of +or- .005" of an inch. Merely looking at a hose will tell you nothing. The best thing to do is not take the chance.



Wedge, the differences are many. The internet guys pay phone temps $8 an hour with no benefits to take orders and they sell an inferior product. They use fillers in their hoses rather than using a 100% nitrile inner liner like Weatherhead does. Their crimps and other fittings also don't have near the same amount of antcorrosives on them. I have seen the lab tests. There is a DHH guy that posts here periodically and he has never denied this. All my hoses carry a one year guarantee. If that hose blows in 364 days, I will make a new one free of charge and I will go to the factory for reimbursement. What happens when the internet hose blows. Do they offer a warranty? If you buy from DHH and Napa crimps it, where will you go when there's aproblem. I'm shocked that they even do it. Do you bring eggs to the diner and ask them to cook you an omelette and not charge you?

Dave, I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm the cheapest guy around because I'm probably not. There are three things about providing a service. They are fast service, low price, and quality. You can only be two, never all three. Somebody may think they can be all three, but anybody in business will tell you it's impossible. Some hose shops are none of the three.

AlanB, thanks for helping me make my point.

Here's another thing dealing local does. Young man called me with a wood splitter problem. He said he had a broken fitting and asked me what he should do. I told him bring up whatever he can and I'll try to help him. I let him borrow an extractor even though he had an extra fitting and wasn't buying anything. He called me the next day and told me that the splitter lost power gradually, it won't even dent the log anymore. I know this guy's family and he has a newborn at home and wood is his primary heat. He brought the splitter to me and I told him that it's probably the pump. Knowing his situation, I told him I would give him the pump for cost and install it for nothing. I verified low pressure with a gauge. Well before I went to change the pump, I figured I would check the suction hose first, I suspected a problem so I changed it and changed the hyd oil. Well the thing had all kinds of pressure then. End of the story is I also flushed the fluid again, installed a returnline filter, changed the suction and return lines, and charged him $40. Try getting that service off the internet.
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #17  
Ugh. That's my reaction from reading a lot of this.

Larry, you can not tell if two different manufacturers hoses will interchange by looking at them. My Weatherhead crimps have a tolerance of +or- .005" of an inch. Merely looking at a hose will tell you nothing. The best thing to do is not take the chance.



Wedge, the differences are many. The internet guys pay phone temps $8 an hour with no benefits to take orders and they sell an inferior product. They use fillers in their hoses rather than using a 100% nitrile inner liner like Weatherhead does. Their crimps and other fittings also don't have near the same amount of antcorrosives on them. I have seen the lab tests. There is a DHH guy that posts here periodically and he has never denied this. All my hoses carry a one year guarantee. If that hose blows in 364 days, I will make a new one free of charge and I will go to the factory for reimbursement. What happens when the internet hose blows. Do they offer a warranty? If you buy from DHH and Napa crimps it, where will you go when there's aproblem. I'm shocked that they even do it. Do you bring eggs to the diner and ask them to cook you an omelette and not charge you?

Dave, I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm the cheapest guy around because I'm probably not. There are three things about providing a service. They are fast service, low price, and quality. You can only be two, never all three. Somebody may think they can be all three, but anybody in business will tell you it's impossible. Some hose shops are none of the three.

AlanB, thanks for helping me make my point.

Here's another thing dealing local does. Young man called me with a wood splitter problem. He said he had a broken fitting and asked me what he should do. I told him bring up whatever he can and I'll try to help him. I let him borrow an extractor even though he had an extra fitting and wasn't buying anything. He called me the next day and told me that the splitter lost power gradually, it won't even dent the log anymore. I know this guy's family and he has a newborn at home and wood is his primary heat. He brought the splitter to me and I told him that it's probably the pump. Knowing his situation, I told him I would give him the pump for cost and install it for nothing. I verified low pressure with a gauge. Well before I went to change the pump, I figured I would check the suction hose first, I suspected a problem so I changed it and changed the hyd oil. Well the thing had all kinds of pressure then. End of the story is I also flushed the fluid again, installed a returnline filter, changed the suction and return lines, and charged him $40. Try getting that service off the internet.

Thats a wonderful sales pitch.

Wedge
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #18  
Right on -- Wayne County!

Time and aggravation is worth alot to me... I've got a root grapple with 2 cylinders - 6 hoses with 12 fitting's and 2 T's.

Already replaced 2 (Internet, made in Hydraland, China) hoses with leaky fittings and need to replace another after less than 6 months of use.

Dripping, dirt catching and if you're not payin' attention you'll end up wearin' alot of that everytime you're workin' around it --- aarrgghh!

It's worth $75 to me at least; to not have to short my day (or lose the whole day) with pullin' the hose, drivin' 30 miles and then reattaching the hose.

I like talkin' to somebody across the counter that can fix-me-up and maybe give me a heads up on "what to do different" the next time..

AKfish
 
/ Hydraulic Hose #19  
I noticed this thread and figured I would add my 2¢.

I have purchased quite a few fittings and many feet of hose from Discount hyd (~$600 worth). I haven't had any issues with their products. I have an old Ford 3500 backhoe that needed every hose replaced. I was dreading it because of the high costs.

It isn't rocket science to make a hose. I have been doing it long enough at my job. You just need to know what type of hose and fitting you are using. Then lookup what crimp collar and plate you need. I use a Weatherhead crimper. I didn't have the correct size collar for a few of the hoses I had to crimp so I took those to Napa. At first they said it was $3 per crimp. I considered that reasonable. He ended up charging me less (75¢ ea-cash). I didn't complain. :)

If I were to have paid the typical $75 per hose @ NAPA, it would have cost me $1800 in hoses. Not including the abrasion sleeves for all the hoses. I suggest spending the extra money on those abrasion sleeves. It already saved one of my hoses from a big chunk of wood that jammed up in the boom when I was backing up the backhoe.
 
/ Hydraulic Hose
  • Thread Starter
#20  
I use a Weatherhead crimper. I didn't have the correct size collar for a few of the hoses I had to crimp so I took those to Napa.

I'd LOVE to get a crimper of my own, problem is finding an affordable one. I'd settle for a "hand pump" setup if those were affordable but I couldnt find anything relatively affordable...See, I have a buddy who works for an industrial supply house and I can get Eaton/Weatherhead hose & fittings for what I consider pretty cheap...problem is, I'd need to get em crimped....
 

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