hydraulic remote

/ hydraulic remote #1  

freetrapper

New member
Joined
Mar 7, 2017
Messages
21
Location
Urbana Mo.
Tractor
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I need to add a single remote to the rear of my tractor I have quick connectors on my loader can I T in to them for pressure and return and just add a control valve and lines? Everything I see on here is way over the top with 4 to 6 control valves and way to much plumbing.
 
/ hydraulic remote #2  
Can you study the current FEL valves and determine if they have Power Beyond? Commonly the pump output goes to FEL, then to rear remotes (if they are there), then to 3pt hitch, then dumps back to tank. All of this requires Power Beyond on each set of valves.

If your FEL does not have Power Beyond a "shadetree" way would be to install the T's you mention and forget a valve. Run hoses to rear and add Quick Couplers. Use the FEL valve to run the rear remote. Problem is you cannot have anything coupled to the rear remotes when using the FEL. Also can't have the FEL coupled when using the rear remotes. Very crude, but cheap.

Maybe someone can chime in with an easier solution.

Welcome to TBN fellow Missourian!!!! :)
 
/ hydraulic remote #3  
Open center systems you can not T pressure line, close center you can T. If you have 7 hoses going in and out of your loader valve it has PB and is open center.
 
/ hydraulic remote
  • Thread Starter
#4  
View attachment 503411 View attachment 503410 View attachment DSC_0005.JPG View attachment DSC_0004.JPG View attachment DSC_0006.JPG OK, pics attached hope they come through. It looks like they diverted the line out of the pump went to the loader and back to the tractor. There is a line into the loader valve, four going from the valve to the loader pistons and one back to the tractor. If I tap in there for pressure go to a single remote valve then back to the other line it should work just like the loader right.
 
/ hydraulic remote #5  
...If I tap in there for pressure go to a single remote valve then back to the other line it should work just like the loader right.
No, "T'ing" into the pressure line will not work. Your tractor has "open center" hydraulics... Power from the hydraulic fluid goes from one valve, then to another (3 point hitch). If you "T", the pressure would just bypass your new valve, path of least resistance.

You can replace your 2 valve spool loader valve with one that has three. Make sure it's for open center and has power beyond.

The reason people add more hydraulics is because adding only one valve is pretty expensive but if you ever plan to have hydraulic for Top and Tilt or for 3 point implements, adding 3 is not much more money than just 1.

PS. your first 2 photos didn't load...
 
/ hydraulic remote
  • Thread Starter
#6  
teg, thanks for the info, How about if I went from the loader valve to the remote valve then back to the tractor no t's keep it inline
 
/ hydraulic remote #7  
The loader valve in your picture looks like you can add a PB fitting. The way you wanting to do it could put back pressure spicks on the up stream valves and well get the spool seals leaking.
 
/ hydraulic remote #8  
teg, thanks for the info, How about if I went from the loader valve to the remote valve then back to the tractor no t's keep it inline
Tractordata .com shows your tractor with "open center" but it doesn't go into if you have power beyond or not in your valve - and if you can add it or not. I don't know your tractor specifically, you might want to read a bit more:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/268161-hydraulic-adding-new-remote-valves.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/105013-how-add-hydraulic-outlet-jinma.html

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/hydraulics/107515-power-beyond-remote-hydraulics.html

...but yes, you normally have flow going in one valve, out to another valve (this is where Power beyond comes into play) then out to power the 3 point hitch. If you do not have power beyond (I THINK) this is where the post above, come in to play.
 
/ hydraulic remote
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Totally confused now think I'll just skip it! Thinks for the help anyway.
 
/ hydraulic remote #10  
Ranchhand supply has actual remote kits for these tractors, I've been looking at them myself for my tractor.
 
/ hydraulic remote #11  
I would say that Ranchhand Supply is a good man, he saved my friends butt when his Nortrac Dozer driveline broke. Was able to get parts fast from china.
 
/ hydraulic remote
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Ok, after talking to someone who knows hydraulics and jinma tractors I have some additional information on my dilemma, first solution would be to change my exhisting two spool valve to a four spool giving me two spoos to run rear hydraulics or what ever I want. Next would be to add a second two spool valve into my exhisting circut and I am including a diagram on how to do that on the jinma 254 if amyone is interested. Someone may have already tried to explain this to me but not seeing it on paper or in real life it got lost in translation, like a lot of people I need to see it on paper or in operation to understand it. Once again I want to think every one for their help on this and maybe my diagram will help some some other lost soul, again thanks for all the help. View attachment Hydraulic Circuit (1).pdf
 
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/ hydraulic remote #14  
Freetrapper,
Just a comment on your drawing.

Since the valves beyond the diverter do not require the full power of the hydraulic pump, I don’t believe that the New Stack Valve requires the Power Beyond capability.
 
/ hydraulic remote #15  
Here's the thing about Jinma hydraulics: they shouldn't work, but they do. It's like the old saw that aerodynamically a bumblebee shouldn't fly, but it does.

Jinmas have what are called "open center" hydraulic system. In an open center system, a valve is open -- allowing fluid to flow freely through it -- when it is centered -- neither up nor down, ie not doing anything. Open center systems have a constant volume pump, it moves the same volume of fluid with every revolution of the pump, and fluid is constantly flowing. When no work is being done the fluid is at zero pressure. When a valve is activated to do some work the resistance of the circuit increases, and the pump increases the pressure to keep the fluid volume constant. The valve directs fluid into one side of a cylinder at pressure, which moves the piston, and an equal volume of fluid, not at pressure, comes out the other side. So the flow in the circuit remains constant. Every valve has to have a pressure relief that allows flow once pressure exceeds the rating of the relief valve. If flow is interrupted and there is not a relief the pump will increase the pressure until something gives.

In an open center system all of the devices are arranged in a series, and fluid flows through all of the valves upstream of the one in use at full pressure. Every valve should have two outlets: a power beyond that provides fluid at pressure to downstream valves, and a return to tank that bypasses the downstream valves when the valve is in use. On the last valve in the series there only needs to be one outlet, a return to tank.

Jinma plumbs their hydraulics differently. The loader valve does not have a power beyond. It has a single outlet, as if it were the last valve in the series. But it isn't, the 3-point hitch follows it, and the outlet of the loader valve feeds the 3PH. The reason that power beyond is necessary is to protect the system from high pressure. The pressure relief valve in each valve measures the pressure difference between the input and the outlet. If you have two valves in series the total pressure at the pump is going to be the sum of the pressure over each valve. So if you have a pump that is rated at 2000 PSI, and the FEL and the 3PH each have releases that are set at 2000 PSI, if you use both at the same time and you have Jinma plumbing you would see 4000 PSI at the pump. And your right foot would probably be covered in hot oil in a few seconds.

Now somehow, Jinma gets away with this. I don't know if it's just rare for people to use both the FEL and the 3PH at the same time, or if there is something else. Jinma uses standard FEL valves so it's not something special about the valve. I do know that on my tractor if I use the steering and the FEL valve at the same time I get unpredictable results.

What gets tricky is when you want to add remotes. The proper way to add remotes would be to have the power beyond of the FEL valve feed the remotes, the power beyond of the remotes feed the 3PH, and the return to tank of the remotes tee in with the return to tank of the FEL. But the FEL doesn't have a return to tank, and it doesn't have a power beyond! So how to proceed? I can think of four ways:

1. Replumb the FEL valve "properly" with a power beyond and return to tank, and then plumb the remotes normally.
2. Leave the FEL alone, and put the remotes upstream of the FEL plumbed normally, with power beyond feeding the FEL and its own return to tank.
3. Put the remotes valve in series with the FEL and plumbed the same way as the FEL.
4. Replace the FEL valve with a 4-spool valve plumbed the same way as the existing FEL valve.

Options 1 and 2 are complicated by the fact that some Jinmas (like mine) don't have any easy place to put in a return to tank. You'd have to drill a hole in the tank and tap it with pipe threads.

As noted above, the risk of not having a power beyond and return to tank on any valve upstream of the 3PH is that excessive system pressure could destroy the pump. That risk could be mitigated by having a system pressure relief valve on the pump outlet that opens to the tank if there is excessive pressure. Many people believe that Jinma should have done this to begin with, and I know some members here have made this modification. However, to do this you need a way of tapping into the tank.
 
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/ hydraulic remote #16  
Very good read. Logically explained. Relatively easy to understand. A person new to hydraulics should read the above post however many times it takes to understand it. Thank you for the post!!!
 

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