Hydraulic winch and other general PT usability questions

[marrt]

I have a mini-x and compact track loader. Both are two speed. Tracking the mini-x at "high speed" can be challenging on anything but a smooth surface.

If I was forced to have only one machine for digging and clearing operations, it would be the mini-x. It's amazing what they can do with the arm and blade.

However, the 425 is the most versatile machine I own. Forced to choose, I would rent the mini-x and buy the 425. However, it all depends on your short and long term use. No machine is perfect. Here's my simple assessment of the best machine for the job (I own all these machines, all but one bought used and refurbished by me):

• For mowing (lawns): zero turn mower (goes faster, turns tighter, has more "mowing power")
• For tree work: mini-x with hydraulic thumb (can push trees down or direct them where to fall, dig up the stumps, hold logs for comfortable/safe sawing, load logs on a trailer or truck, place and organize a burn pile)
• For digging and trenching: mini-x
• For dirt moving and smoothing: compact trac loader (skid loader with tracks)
• For forklift work on rough surfaces: compact trac loader (standard forklift for smooth surfaces)
• For plowing and rototilling: standard tractor
• For general duty work: Power Trac (can dig, lift, move, mow, etc...not always the fastest or most capable option, but can do almost anything if time isn't an issue.)

 

[agjones]

I have a similar array of machines and attachments. I think the OP is likely in need of a rental mini ex w thumb if that's a one time job.

A 425 just doesn't have the mass to anchor a winch well IMO.

The pt is the primary machine on some jobs and sites and the 2nd machine on pretty much all the jobs.

I usually have these pt attachments on site: 4n1, grapple, trencher, stump grinder and forks. Depending on the task either the power rake, brush deck or box blade.

 

[2manyrocks]

Some of the forestry sites have posts saying they would not winch from anything under something like 5,000 or 7,000 lbs-ie, a pretty good sized skid steer.

Nearly all of this winching will have to be done with a re-direct anchored to other trees on a hillside up from the area I intend to clear.

I already have a couple of rope winches, but would really like a power winch.

I've seen a post or two here cautioning that a capstan winch can be dangerous. Also, I'd prefer to be using metal cable instead of rope. There are some lewis style chainsaw winches that appear to use metal cable, but are there any portable winches that I could anchor to a tree that use metal cable and a regular gas engine instead of a chainsaw as the power source?

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

If you compare machines pound for pound, a wheeled skid steer will get stuck much easier than a PT. It'll make ruts in the ground, tear the place up, generally damage the forest floor, and promote erosion. It's also not as stable on hills.

If you put tracks on it, it's no longer a wheeled skid steer, it's tracked. So if you go skid steer for off-road use, get tracks for you wheels or a tracked unit.

A wheel barrow and a shovel has you both beat.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I use my 1850 in a forestry setting. Ground clearance is an issue and I do find myself high centered on stumps. We have heavy underbrush due to the precipitation so stumps are frequently hidden. My other complaint is I pop tires constantly. I budget around 300 a year for tire repair. I do have a grapple and it is my second most used tool. So hugely handy. But get an aftermarket. The pt ones are pretty whimpy in my opinion. What is great about our 1850 is it goes everywhere and works great in my forestry used. I put a steel cable on my grapple, cut a few trees down the pull them up with the tractor, then clean them and cut them down to manageable lengths and grapple them to the burn piles. One more thing you need to be aware of is tree wrap. Especially in the 1850 with dual tires. You can easily slide into a tree on a slope and you end up having to cut the tree down to get out.

 

[MossRoad]

I use my 1850 in a forestry setting. Ground clearance is an issue and I do find myself high centered on stumps. We have heavy underbrush due to the precipitation so stumps are frequently hidden. My other complaint is I pop tires constantly. I budget around 300 a year for tire repair. I do have a grapple and it is my second most used tool. So hugely handy. But get an aftermarket. The pt ones are pretty whimpy in my opinion. What is great about our 1850 is it goes everywhere and works great in my forestry used. I put a steel cable on my grapple, cut a few trees down the pull them up with the tractor, then clean them and cut them down to manageable lengths and grapple them to the burn piles. One more thing you need to be aware of is tree wrap. Especially in the 1850 with dual tires. You can easily slide into a tree on a slope and you end up having to cut the tree down to get out.

If you had a winch you could pull yourself off the tree.

Maybe.

Tree wrap is a real thing to be wary of. I did it on flat ground not paying attention. Fortunately, I had an attachment on and was able to crab away from the tree with down pressure on the attachment while steering back and forth. On a slope, that might not have been possible.

 

[2manyrocks]

Which aftermarket grapples fit the 1850 or 425? I thought the PT mount was proprietary to PT?

 

[ponytug]

Which aftermarket grapples fit the 1850 or 425? I thought the PT mount was proprietary to PT?

You are right. It is proprietary, but you can buy the adapter plates from PT. If you can weld, they are pretty easy to make, and depending on the attachment and your PT, it may not take much to make an adapter plate.

My two cents on buying third party items is keep an eye on the weight, and remember that the PT lift rating is more or less at the plate, so a heavy attachment with the center of mass another two feet out cuts into the lift capacity for loads. E.g. I bought a third party chipper, added a hydraulic motor, and then an adapter plate at the center of mass for the chipper. The chipper is heavy, probably 1,000lbs, but the fact that the center of mass is another two feet out means I can "feel" that it eats up a lot of my payload capacity.

With a grapple, any pound that is in the grapple itself is a pound of brush that you can't lift. As @woodlandfarms pointed out some PT attachments are on the lightweight side, which is true. However, I think of it more as PT trying to thread a needle to maximize effective capacity. My brush cutter certainly flexes a bit, but I haven't needed to do anything to it, and boy does it get the job done. On the other hand, my PT rototiller is a beast, and rock solid. I bent my 4n1 bucket edge back dragging into clay soil with rocks more than a few times (easily fixed by driving the tractor into an immovable object), but eventually, I did cut that edge off and welded on a heavier blade that hasn't flexed since.(which may cause issues in the future, but I guess that I shall have to see.)

I personally found visiting the factory and test driving several tractors extremely helpful. It convinced me that the 1445 would do everything I needed, and sold me on a couple of attachments that I hadn't been sure of. (E.g. post driver instead of an auger.) YMMV.

I would say that I knew nothing about hydraulics when I bought my Power-Trac fifteen years ago, and it hasn't been an issue for me. Lots of learning on the job, and tremendous support from folks here who do understand these tractors.

All the best,

Peter

 

[2manyrocks]

While I haven't looked at this in detail, my impression has been that tractor size grapples may be too heavy eating into usable lifting capacity while the Dingo style grapples and brush cutters are just too much $$ to my taste. But you folks that have been PT owners for years will know more about these options than I do. It just seems PT is more reasonable with their attachment pricing than what I see for aftermarket attachments for Dingo style mini loaders? Or do I have that wrong?

One other issue that concerns me is a post by Moss Road in another thread offering the viewpoint that the front mount brush cutter can be dangerous about throwing debris. Seems like the CTL makers are pretty specific in telling customers to have a lexan (polycarbonate) door for safety reasons when operating a front brush mower. Have any of you considered adding a debris shield to the PT ROPS? It would seem to be easy to do and increase operator safety using the brush cutter.

 

[ponytug]

While I haven't looked at this in detail, my impression has been that tractor size grapples may be too heavy eating into usable lifting capacity while the Dingo style grapples and brush cutters are just too much $$ to my taste. But you folks that have been PT owners for years will know more about these options than I do. It just seems PT is more reasonable with their attachment pricing than what I see for aftermarket attachments for Dingo style mini loaders? Or do I have that wrong?

One other issue that concerns me is a post by Moss Road in another thread offering the viewpoint that the front mount brush cutter can be dangerous about throwing debris. Seems like the CTL makers are pretty specific in telling customers to have a lexan (polycarbonate) door for safety reasons when operating a front brush mower. Have any of you considered adding a debris shield to the PT ROPS? It would seem to be easy to do and increase operator safety using the brush cutter.

I think that you have the attachment design accurately described.

I would characterize the PT approach to design as "KISS", which makes the attachments lightweight, inexpensive, repairs easy, and generally quick. Pump replacement on the engine would be a definite exception, but not worse than skid steer repairs.

Yes, brush cutters are always a flying debris issue for any machine. I brush cut with a logging helmet with a wire mesh face shield. I have never been hit with anything more than a ricochet twig, but I don't want to push my luck. The set up of the PT brush mowers is such that under normal operation the flying debris tends to go forward or under the tractor if the mower is on the ground. I don't brush cut near people or buildings. I think that there was someone here that did polycarbonate front shield and someone who did a woven wire mesh one, but that is just from memory. I.e. not common.

All the best,

Peter