Winches hydraulic winch idea

[dbutler]

I have an L45 Kubota and one of its many uses include cleaning/thinning of the woods on our 20 acres. Most of the logs and brush I want to move I can get with the grapple and or backhoe with thumb. Occasionally I use a chain and skid the log where it needs to go. In several cases, the logs are on a slope that does not allow me to get the tractor close enough.

My idea to get these logs close enough is to mount a Warn 7500 lb. winch to a QA plate and use the optional hydraulic ports on the loader arms to power it. They provide 11.8 gpm. which per the winch specs will give me ample line speed and pulling power. The winch has 125 feet of 3/8" cable. This would give me the reach I need to skid the log to a point I could get it with the grapple or re attach it with a chain to the rear of the tractor. I think by pulling fairly straight on I would avoid any loader arm problems. Pulling hard from a side angle may over stress the loader arms.

The reason I want the winch on the front is because I want to keep the backhoe mounted. The weight of it gives me much better stability and traction, as well as maintaining the ability to use the hoe and thumb. A "farmi" style 3pt winch is not in my budget and it would force me to remove the backhoe.

By mounting the winch to a QA plate, I could swap swap between the winch and grapple or bucket in about a minute giving convenient flexibility.

By using a hydraulic winch, I could control it with the buttons on the loader joy stick. I spoke with a Warn tech who said the winch would work perfectly for the application I described.

Any thoughts or ideas on this project would be appreciated.

Thanks, Dave

 

[Rock knocker]

An expert like JJ will be a long soon enough, but I believe that a loader valve is a poor choice to control a hydraulic motor because the motor needs to spool down and return to neutral.

 

[Sprinklerman]

Could you figure a way to mount it dirrectly to the front of the tractor . That way its always there , nobody plans to get stuck .

 

[dbutler]

Sprinklerman, Not that I cant get stuck but luckily my terrian has no mud issues to get stuck in. You make a great point but with the fabrication and plumbing it would take, I think mounting the winch to a QA plate will work well too.

Rock knocker, That is an issue Ill need to research further. I dont know a whole lot about hydraulics. The Warn hydraulic tech and I talked for about 20 minutes and he seemed to think the optional ports on the loader arms would be okay. He said one button would be spool in and the other spool out. I would also be able to free spool by disengaging the winch.

 

[Sprinklerman]

My thought was , 1 its always with the tractor , not laying on the floor of the garage . 2. its not on the loader arms , so pulling at some angles wouldnt be a problem . 3 . The loader bucket would also be a way to anchor the machine , in addition to the hoe .

Did you ever thing of a large electric winch , much easier to set up .

 

[rbargeron]

Would seem if a TLB is used in the woods, the backhoe offers a good anchor for log skidding. The stabilizers can be planted and the hoe can point toward the load. A winch could hang on a plate with a hole for an extra-length bucket pin. Hydraulics could tee in at the curl cylinder with QD's. The curl valve would even allow feathering. Just a thought.

 

[Gordon Gould]

It is a good starting idea but needs some things worked out and verified. The winch doesn't have a load with much momentum so starting and stopping the motor using the loader valve to control the motor might be OK though a motor control valve would be better. You will want an experienced hydraulic motor control guy to confirm that. I think a potentially bigger problem would be if the loader valve is regenerative. Many if not most Kubota loader valves are regenerative so research that to.

I like rbargeron's idea of putting it on the BH.

 

[Rustyiron]

The 3rd function valve is not regen. (at least on my M9540) and should work. Mounting on the backhoe in place of the bucket would be slick. Ideally you have a "thumb" for powering the winch and a pin on bucket. On my grapple, there is some room in-between the left & right levers for the ssqa and mounting the winch behind the grapple, in the middle between the levers, would be real nice to have the winch & grapple available, even though you'd have to switch them back & fourth (hydraulically) for use. You would also have to make a simple mod. to your grapple that would allow the cable to pass through the back "tines", allowing the cable to move back & fourth the width of the drum.
Ramsey makes a nice 8000# winch with a 6.5" drum width. The drawback is that it only hold's 85' of cable, but 85' is a pretty good reach and also put's you closer to the winch's rating (rated at "first layer" of cable).

 

[SweBota]

I'm adapting a Sepson hydraulic winch to my Kubota L5030 for exactly the same purposes. I will attach it to my front mount quick hitch, not to the FEL. There it will be strong enough for self-recovery, and low so it doesnt tip the tractor. If needed I could put a snatch block on the FEL to get a bit of lift, but then use caution not to overload the FEL.

It will be powered from the hydraulic PTO circuit and use a separate valve with a wireless remote for in/out.

Electric winches are no good for logging, forget that. It would just drain the battery and/or overheat.

/Marcus

Edit: I found a used winch for the equivalent of 1000Usd, these things are insanely expensive new.

Sepdurance, Manual freespool, 38 kN - Sepson - World Class Winches

 

[Rustyiron]

Just thought of something (along the winch idea) that I saw that I thought was very clever with a backhoe. A guy was pulling cable through conduit with his backhoe. He had a winch drum mounted on one of his rear wheels, the stabilizers had that tire in the air, and for his application, he had a sheave chained to his bucket guiding the cable into the conduit. Clever and cheap winch for a backhoe.

 

[dbutler]

Putting the winch on the backhoe is an interesting idea too. Part of the idea of putting it on the QA plate was the ease of the hydraulic connections and controls already in place. Now I need to answer the question of the valves being regenerative. Not sure how to determine that. The Warn tech said it would be as simple as plugging into my connections and going to work. The winch is the type that is typically used on a flatbed truck for vehicle recovery.

 

[dbutler]

Ive had a couple Jeeps, both with 9500 lb Warn electric winches. The problem with them is a huge current draw. I would need a much bigger alternator and battery. As it is, I changed to LED lights just so my alternator could keep up at low to mid rpm. The machine came with 8 work lights and it was too much draw.

 

[k0ua]

Putting the winch on the backhoe is an interesting idea too. Part of the idea of putting it on the QA plate was the ease of the hydraulic connections and controls already in place. Now I need to answer the question of the valves being regenerative. Not sure how to determine that. The Warn tech said it would be as simple as plugging into my connections and going to work. The winch is the type that is typically used on a flatbed truck for vehicle recovery.

The kubota dump curl circuit surely has regen. On some models it is the furthermost over position on the spool and some it is the first position. I would use my hydraulic circuit that is already sitting there on the torque tube waiting for a hydraulic connection (see below). But if you don't have that, You could use the lift circuit instead of your curl dump circuit and get a simple diverter valve to swap between lift/lower and winch in and out and get away from the whole regeneration thing because I guarantee there is no regen on the lift/lower circuit of your loader valve. here is a simple electric/hydraulic diverter valve that would work fine. You will need the little electrical connector, for it and 3 sets of quick connects. Straight thru left to right side when the coil is not energized, (this would restore you FEL lift function) and left side to face of the valve is the flow path when the coil es energized with 12 volts DC. This would be your new circuit for the winch motor.

 

[dbutler]

kOua, I would be using the factory auxiliary hydrualic connections. They are completely independent from the loader or curl cylinders. The loader joystick has 2 buttons that control those circuits. I use them for operating my grapple. Do you think that would correctly run the winch? Are those valves regenerative?

 

[k0ua]

kOua, I would be using the factory auxiliary hydrualic connections. They are completely independent from the loader or curl cylinders. The loader joystick has 2 buttons that control those circuits. I use them for operating my grapple. Do you think that would correctly run the winch? Are those valves regenerative?

I would bet the farm, and all of its fixtures they are not.

Let me ask you this though, did the Warn winch guy mention anything about needing a motor spool valve or a case drain? if not, I think you are good to go.

 

[dbutler]

He did not mention anything about that. Are you saying the valves dont need to be regenerative?

 

[k0ua]

He did not mention anything about that. Are you saying the valves dont need to be regenerative?

I am saying you don't want a regeneration function in your valve.. and those 3rd function electric/hydraulic valve will not have regenerative function and I believe it would work.

 

[dbutler]

Putting the winch on the grapple would work but my problem is I often grab huge piles of tree tops so Im afraid I may damage the winch in the process. If I mount the winch to the QA plate, I could swap the grapple and winch very quickly.

 

[dbutler]

Ok kOua got it. I was confused about the regen valve issue. If I understand correctly, this should be plug and play but I will talk to the Warn guy again to verify.

 

[k0ua]

Ok kOua got it. I was confused about the regen valve issue. If I understand correctly, this should be plug and play but I will talk to the Warn guy again to verify.

Let us know how you make out, then we will all know.. That way we can help others with greater certainty.