Hydraulics for beginners

   / Hydraulics for beginners #1  

Torvy

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North East Texas
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TYM T574H
OK, experts, here is the next in my series of questions from a beginner for beginners...

My understanding of hydraulics is relatively basic. Essentially, a fluid contained in a closed system with a pump to pressurize it. Valves and the like are controlled by levers or switches to drive or manipulate gears/levers/devices with force. There are two primary ways to measure hydraulic abilities. Pressure and flow (or volume). Pressure is measured in Pounds per square inch (PSI) or similar metric measurement. Flow is measured in gallons (or litres) per minute. I view pressure thinking of a typical garden hose. Without any attachments, the hose flows out under low pressure. If you press your thumb over the opening (or kink the hose), the water flows out at a higher pressure, but no more water actually comes out. For our purposes, pressure with make things move more quickly. Flow is more about capacity. The more flow, the more ability a hydraulic system should have to lift/dig/push. This is what I think I know. Please correct any misunderstandings.

In terms of how hydraulics are incorporated into tractors, from what I remember as a kid and what I have read tractors may have 1 to 5 (6?) output ports depending on what you buy. With an FEL, there would be 1-3? that control the lifting, dumping and/or grapple functions (these same ones are used for snow blowers?). Near the 3pt hitch you would have 1-3 ports (typically) that can be used to operate attachments/implements. Please correct misunderstandings here as well.

The question(s): Under what circumstances would I need more ports in the back? (like what types of attachments use more?) How often do you need all 3. Are there good arguments for saving the money by having fewer? Are the couplers standardized for compact tractors or do some manufacturers use proprietary connectors? Any good advice on how to maintain hydraulic systems? Should I keep backup hoses in my shop or do they fail infrequently enough that it is not worth keeping inventory? Can cracks/holes be patched or is the pressure so great that it would be pointless?

I know this topic can be huge and there are a lot of other possible concerns with separate pumps and such. We can save those for another day. Thanks again. The answers to my earlier questions have been outstanding and quite helpful.
 
   / Hydraulics for beginners #2  
For me, it's better to have extra valves and not need them vs. installing fewer and needing more valves.

I plumbed a 3 spool valve after my FEL valve. For my use, I wanted Top N Tilt hydraulics to use for my 3 point hitch. (makes adjusting box blades and rear blades a snap) and one spool to run the front grapple. Thinking was if I needed a hose to angle my rear blade, I could route my grapple hose to the back. (in reality, I never needed it)

For me at the time of the install, each extra spool was like $60 more. So it didn't cost that much more.
 
   / Hydraulics for beginners
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Thanks, I lean toward more is better, but I have to be able to make a reasonable argument for my wife. She will literally run the numbers to see if it makes sense. I cannot BS that woman.
 
   / Hydraulics for beginners #4  
So it comes down to what you need your tractor to do for you... If you have the time (and energy) to manually adjust the 3 point hitch (getting off the seat and shorten or lengthening the top link/side link) when you use the 3 point hitch. You might not need T-N-T. The nice thing, if you run a box blade, you'll learn to use it more efficiently since it's so easy to make minor changes.

Same for a grapple... you can load things by hand or you can drive up to a down tree and just grab it. Now if you don't have trees, you might not need a grapple!

What do you see yourself using rear remotes for? (for the record, I think it cost $750 to add 3 remotes, myself - although, if I bought correct hydraulic hoses, I could have saved some money).
 
   / Hydraulics for beginners #5  
Torvy
In hydraulics pressure is what produces the force in a cylinder or torque in a motor while flow is speed in cylinder velocity or motor RPM

Topic of rear remotes or connections. Best answer sit down and make a list of what implements or attachments you plan on using or purchasing. Then use this list to determine how many connections each implement requires and make sure you have enough to operate the implements with most required

large farm tractors may have eight or more and use all of them at times. Little compact tractors may only require one or two.
 
   / Hydraulics for beginners #6  
OK, experts, here is the next in my series of questions from a beginner for beginners...
My advice is to take a pragmatic approach to how they (hydraulics) are applied to whatever labor saving machine or attachment you are engaged with...

First off I would learn the difference between open and closed center systems... although for most tractors (especially compact tractors) the latter is not a factor...
For learning about connector types and sizes, hose ends and fittings etc., etc...I would visit the link below for their free port ID, thread size and fitting guide...

 
   / Hydraulics for beginners #7  
You mentioned something about keeping hoses in stock rather than buying them as needed. Hoses work much better when they are the same length as the old hose with the same type fittings.

When I blow a hose I take it off the machine and take it with me to the hydraulic shop. That way he can match it up exactly and it fits right back on the machine. Now it is nice if you have a hydraulic shop close. The one I use is about 10 or 12 miles from the house so that saves time in a pinch. Plus I trust these guys to give me what I need. I blew a hose a while back and took it to an auto parts store for a new one and this guy crimped the wrong size fittings on it. That cost me the time to get back to the job, realize the mistake, return trip back to the auto place and so on. A big pain all because he didn't pay attention to what he was doing.
 
   / Hydraulics for beginners
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Thanks guys! This gets me back to an earlier comment on another thread...I think it makes more sense, at least for me, to figure out what implements I need and then find the best tractor fit that will accomplish all of the tasks I need or reasonably expect to do. It seems that if I get set on a tractor it may be too much or too little for my jobs.

I still have so much to learn, but I want to know as much as possible before I start purchasing anything. Fortunately, I have very little that I am legally required to maintain. The easements are technically not my problem, that is a nice to have. My 'ditches' such as they are have little or no plant life, so I can put off purchasing anything until closer to when the buildings are up (12 months or so from now).
 
   / Hydraulics for beginners #9  
I would not even worry about what implements you "need". Concentrate on what you need to do to the land, Maintain gravel driveway? mow? food plots? build roads and trails? Then the implements will make themselves know. Finish mow for grass or Rough cut shredder/bush hog mower for small trees and weeds?

For me, I like a smaller tractor = was less money (or more money leftover to buy implements) = takes longer to get things done (more seat time). I'm not in a rush and since I've built my roads, trails, food plots... I mainly have a very larger lawn mower!!!

Don't get me wrong, I still use it most days I'm at the farm - but it doesn't get used that much since I've gotten most things done that I needed. Good luck shopping...
 
   / Hydraulics for beginners
  • Thread Starter
#10  
You said it better...I skipped a step...you're right we have a good idea of what we need to do with the land, but there are some 'possible' things that may or may not get done.
The tools needed must follow the process needs. I need to put in some fence posts, but I don't know if it makes sense to buy an auger to attach to my tractor or just rent one for a day or two. I am sure I could turn it into a multi-tasker by using it for other purposes like tree planting, but I could also use other, cheaper tools to plant trees. I saw someone, I think shooterdan, mention big spreadsheets to do the math, that is exactly the type of thing I do...I have a giant one in progress right now to help me compare apples to apples and (where possible) determine if it is better to buy or rent.
 
 
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