Hydrostatic vs shuttle shift

[dieselscout80]

if you're up there in years with questionable knees, before choosing a "shuttle shift" on any model, be sure you can handle clutch depression if required for directional change.

hyd shuttle with gears (on larger Kubota utility models) has been a perfect match for me through the years. I'll be selling my place soon and will miss that machine, tho glad my knees are still good
OP: let us know which way you go

One way around the clutch pedal pushing is a push button clutch.

Kubota’s M4D-071HD12 has a button to push to activate the clutch decoupling to make synchronized shifts.

Maybe other brands have this feature too.

 

[big bubba]

good point. everything's accelerating on new models regarding this subject. don't even think about how AI will enter into the equation.
I started out with a Massey TO35 for 28 yrs to my current M series. At 78 i'll be selling out soon and glad to be walking away with good knees the way i came the place decades ago.

regarding this thread, the current market offers so much more opts and technology than the good old days. saying that, our life span is much longer today, the ol' timers didn't worry about knees or hydrostat, they were gone by then and didn't have to worry about monthly tractor payments with the latest creature comforts...

 

[WM75Guy]

It comes down to personal preference and what tasks are being performed, having one of each is a nice situation. I mowed our 12 acres of pasture for 12 years with the TC40DA and a 6' cutter. Never had an issue with the HST getting hot in the Texas summer temps, just the operator got hot in the open station. You do have to keep the radiator and coolers clean.

My WM75 has a 12 speed with shuttle shift so I have to clutch it to change directions. Since it is used almost exclusively for mowing it is not a big deal. I use the TC40DA and the WM25 for doing dirt work, dragging the dressage arena, and lifting with the pallet forks. Both have HST so they are better suited to those tasks for me.

The CTL does the moving of hay with a 10-bale hay grapple. It also does the brush grapple work. And now it can grind stumps.

 

[Irap]

What tractor do you have? How do you use it? And why do you wish you hadn't bought it?

TYM 454. I have been moving dirt to level the yard. I feel like I could control the gears better and also feel like the shuttle operated better with the front loader. I do have to say that the shuttle caused my knee to hurt.

 

[Jrasband]

One way around the clutch pedal pushing is a push button clutch.

Kubota’s M4D-071HD12 has a button to push to activate the clutch decoupling to make synchronized shifts.

Maybe other brands have this feature too.

Another way to get around pushing the clutch in hydraulic shuttle is to shift the shuttle into neutral before changing gears, than shifting the shuttle back into gear.

 

[mikester]

This is true. Not sure why, but hydro is different from one manufacturer to another. MF is lousy, TYM is decent. Mahindra is lousy, JD is good.

I had a MF 1540 Powershuttle and it was an excellent tractor and transmission. Had to sell it in '09 after the economy crashed. Bought another MF in '13 (1643) with Hydro and it sucked ass. Got rid of it in '21 and bought a MF 4707 with Powershuttle.

Much happier with a shuttle shift.

My experience test operating ~60HP CUTs

MF slow and sluggish all around

JD eHydro was sweet but $$$$

My NH HS demo proved it to be sucky and gutless and I ended up going with EHSS. Good power and fuel efficiency but not without hiccups when shifting fwd/rev in loader/fork work.

I've always found mechanical HS Kubota to be sucky. The eHydro on my M59 has crazy torque and changed my mind on the K HS. M59 throws way too much heat IMHO but it's a bull for pushing and loader work. Way faster than my same HP NH with EHSS.

If you go HS then you need to run at full throttle all the time while working. If you prefer to keep rpms low and use the foot throttle then you will like SS better.

With the better eHydro setups you can dial in the servo responses to match your load i.e. if I'm unloading armourstone off a flatbed with forks I can slow down the pedal response for fine control. If I'm loading a dump truck from a pile I can crank up the response rate and go faster. Old school mechanical HS tends to be hurky jerky jack of all trades and never really excelling at anything.

 

[scootr]

TYM 454. I have been moving dirt to level the yard. I feel like I could control the gears better and also feel like the shuttle operated better with the front loader. I do have to say that the shuttle caused my knee to hurt.

Dedicated grading tractors do better with a shuttle shift. But for mowing HST is superior. There is no do it all transmission. I mowed for almost 20 yr with a shuttle shift... The HST is a big improvement there and works fine for medium ground engaging work like discing and road maintenance.

 

[dieselscout80]

My experience test operating ~60HP CUTs

MF slow and sluggish all around

JD eHydro was sweet but $$$$

My NH HS demo proved it to be sucky and gutless and I ended up going with EHSS. Good power and fuel efficiency but not without hiccups when shifting fwd/rev in loader/fork work.

I've always found mechanical HS Kubota to be sucky. The eHydro on my M59 has crazy torque and changed my mind on the K HS. M59 throws way too much heat IMHO but it's a bull for pushing and loader work. Way faster than my same HP NH with EHSS.

If you go HS then you need to run at full throttle all the time while working. If you prefer to keep rpms low and use the foot throttle then you will like SS better.

With the better eHydro setups you can dial in the servo responses to match your load i.e. if I'm unloading armourstone off a flatbed with forks I can slow down the pedal response for fine control. If I'm loading a dump truck from a pile I can crank up the response rate and go faster. Old school mechanical HS tends to be hurky jerky jack of all trades and never really excelling at anything.

Why do you say a hydrostatic transmission has to be run at full engine RPMs?

 

[Jrasband]

Why do you say a hydrostatic transmission has to be run at full engine RPMs?

They tend to be sluggish if not operated at full RPM, unless your just putting around not doing any work on level ground.

 

[rScotty]

Why do you say a hydrostatic transmission has to be run at full engine RPMs?

I wondered about that too. My experience is different. I have the same Kubota M59 that poster has and I normally run it at a little over half throttle - 1500 rpm - for doing heavy work like grading or moving dirt & rocks with the FEL. There is plenty of power, and with the 6 speed Hi/Lo HST+ it is easy to drop down half a range or just throttle up...either way works.

I was concerned about HST heat. In message #20 I attached photos of a $20 HST cooler temperature gauge.

rScotty

 

[rScotty]

They tend to be sluggish if not operated at full RPM, unless your just putting around not doing any work.

Not in my experience, but the larger Kubotas have a 6 speed HST+ tranny.
Maybe that is the difference.

 

[Jrasband]

Not in my experience, but the larger Kubotas have a 6 speed HST+ tranny.
Maybe that is the difference.

My experience is with much smaller tractors when operating HST

 

[rScotty]

My experience is with much smaller tractors when operating HST

Makes sense. The HST does take more power to run than gears, but the larger tractor sizes have that power to spare for most work.
About the only time I use full throttle is in road gear going somewhere on blacktop. That sure sucks up the power. It could use more power on the road - especially going up even a slight grade.

 

[jyoutz]

Makes sense. The HST does take more power to run than gears, but the larger tractor sizes have that power to spare for most work.
About the only time I use full throttle is in road gear going somewhere on blacktop. That sure sucks up the power. It could use more power on the road - especially going up even a slight grade.

An M59 is a heavy tractor of approximately 60 hp. My MX6000 is about the same hp but is plenty peppy in toad gear too. But it’s also not hauling a backhoe.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

I have zero experience with anything other than HST. Both were 3 ranges, one 29HP another 35HP.
I work my tractor, but not abuse. I find that my HST tractors bog down on hills in mid range. When using PTO mower or carrying loads in bucket, I need to go into low range up hills. Not sure if that is a HP issue or range issue. Love the HST for everything I do, other than the hills, but the hills are a very small part, and it's easy to live with. The longest hill is less than 2 minutes in low range. Kioti CK3529se HST is my current tractor.