I almost broke the law...alot

   / I almost broke the law...alot #41  
kevinj said:
Look a bit further in the manual, Michigan has an exclusion for non commercial drivers hauling for personal use.

No state can exempt itself from Federal law. It can make a state law that is more restrictive than the Federal law from which it is modeled, but it cannot go the other way. If the Federal law requires a CDL for certain operations, no state can grant anybody exemption from that requirement.

I don't know what the particulars are in this case, but the Federal law must not require CDL in this case. Michigan can only be granting an exemption from it's own state law in this case.
 
   / I almost broke the law...alot #43  
cp1969 said:
No state can exempt itself from Federal law. It can make a state law that is more restrictive than the Federal law from which it is modeled, but it cannot go the other way. If the Federal law requires a CDL for certain operations, no state can grant anybody exemption from that requirement.

I don't know what the particulars are in this case, but the Federal law must not require CDL in this case. Michigan can only be granting an exemption from it's own state law in this case.

That is why I said to read further. This a commercial driver law and personal use, rv, farm etc are exempt. That was my complaint above. I carry a CDL AT but Joe Blow can haul what he pleases for "personal non commercial use".

Search Michigan DOT and you read the CDL code online.
 
   / I almost broke the law...alot #44  
I don't know about other states but in Pa, you don't need a CDL to haul up to 26,000 lbs. You need to have your turck licensed for combination weight of truck and trlr. In my case weight is 23,500 lbs and the cost of registering my truck is $405.00 a year. Doesn't matter if your are hauling commerciial or your tractor to the shop. It's all about money
 
   / I almost broke the law...alot #45  
kevinj said:
That is why I said to read further. This a commercial driver law and personal use, rv, farm etc are exempt. That was my complaint above. I carry a CDL AT but Joe Blow can haul what he pleases for "personal non commercial use".

Search Michigan DOT and you read the CDL code online.

Joe Blow can NOT haul what he pleases, regardless of whether it's "personal non-commercial use" if the weight of his truck or trailer puts him in the category of needing a CDL under Federal law, unless that exemption is spelled out under Federal, not state, law. For instance, the Federal law says that once you hit 26,001 lbs, a CDL is required. Michigan cannot say, "Well, we know what the Feds say, but we think we'll let people operate up to 30,000 lbs without a CDL as long as it is for personal use."

That isn't how it works. Federal law trumps State law, every time. I said earlier that States could pass more restrictive laws, but I'm not sure even that is true in the case of the CDL laws. What caused them to come into existence at the Federal level in the first place was the fact that there was so much variance in licensing procedures and requirements from state-to-state that it was ridiculous.

I am generally not in favor of using Federal laws to regulate everyday behavior; I think the states should be allowed to decide for themselves how many laws to pass and how to enforce them. But with the driver and vehicle licensing, the possibility of movement between states means that a driver had to figure out if he was legal in every state in which he proposed to travel. You could be legal in your home state and nowhere close to legal in another. The CDL was supposed to eliminate that...comply with the CDL regs, and you're legal everywhere.
 
   / I almost broke the law...alot #46  
cp1969 said:
Joe Blow can NOT haul what he pleases, regardless of whether it's "personal non-commercial use" if the weight of his truck or trailer puts him in the category of needing a CDL under Federal law, unless that exemption is spelled out under Federal, not state, law. For instance, the Federal law says that once you hit 26,001 lbs, a CDL is required. Michigan cannot say, "Well, we know what the Feds say, but we think we'll let people operate up to 30,000 lbs without a CDL as long as it is for personal use."

That isn't how it works. Federal law trumps State law, every time. I said earlier that States could pass more restrictive laws, but I'm not sure even that is true in the case of the CDL laws. What caused them to come into existence at the Federal level in the first place was the fact that there was so much variance in licensing procedures and requirements from state-to-state that it was ridiculous.

I am generally not in favor of using Federal laws to regulate everyday behavior; I think the states should be allowed to decide for themselves how many laws to pass and how to enforce them. But with the driver and vehicle licensing, the possibility of movement between states means that a driver had to figure out if he was legal in every state in which he proposed to travel. You could be legal in your home state and nowhere close to legal in another. The CDL was supposed to eliminate that...comply with the CDL regs, and you're legal everywhere.

Below is from the Michigan CDL Guide. Read the exemptions and tell me what you think. The farmer needs an F over 26,000, but it sure looks like firemen and individuals are exempt.

Who Needs a Commercial Driver License (CDL)?

Any Michigan resident who intends to operate the following commercial vehicles is required to have a commercial driver license:

Single Vehicles - Having a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR)* of 26,001 pounds or more.



Combination Vehicles - Towing a trailer or other vehicles with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more when the gross combination weight rating (GCWR)** is 26,001 pounds or more.



Vehicles:

Designed to transport 16 or more people (including the driver)
Carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding
*Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the recommended maximum total weight of the vehicle and load as designated by the vehicle manufacturer. The GVWR label is usually found on the driver side door post of the power unit and on the front left side of the trailer. The GVWR should not be confused with the elected gross vehicle weight (GVW) which is declared by the vehicle owner for registration purposes.



**Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) means the value specified by the manufacturer as the maximum loaded weight of a combination vehicle. In the absence of a label, the GCWR can be calculated by adding the GVWR of the power unit to the GVWR of the vehicle(s) or trailer(s) being towed.



Exemptions



The following people do not need a CDL:

Active Duty Military (including National Guard): With military licenses operating military vehicles.



Police Officers and Firefighters: Meeting approved training standards and operating authorized emergency vehicles.



Farmers: Operating vehicles within a 150 mile radius of their farm.

An F-endorsement is needed by farmers operating combination vehicles whose towing vehicle has a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more. A knowledge test, but no skills test, is required to obtain the F-endorsement.
However, farmers who carry hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding while operating combination vehicles whose towing vehicle has a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, or a single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or more, need a CDL with a hazardous materials endorsement.


Individuals: Operating motor homes or other vehicles used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members, for non-business purposes.



Related Documents
> Michigan Commercial Driver License Manual - 2810323 bytes
 
   / I almost broke the law...alot #47  
hatecubs said:
Doesn't matter if your are hauling commerciial or your tractor to the shop.
As it should be. Not only are there safety issues, there's also the impact of that much weight on the roads.

hatecubs said:
It's all about money
Yep, vehicles that have a bigger impact on the roads should pay more...Not that roads in PA are all that much to rave about.
 
   / I almost broke the law...alot #48  
rback33 said:
There are animal husbandry exemptions... still governed by weight, air brakes and so forth... most large horse trailers and pickups are expempt...we run ours as a small business and I don't worry at all....
Don't take this personnally. I am not a compliance officer nor do I care what you do. I know what FMCSA 383.3(f) states about ag operations.

I made my statement hoping to make people aware of the possiblities. If you don't think you have to worry fine.
 
   / I almost broke the law...alot #49  
QRTRHRS said:
Don't take this personnally. I am not a compliance officer nor do I care what you do. I know what FMCSA 383.3(f) states about ag operations.

I made my statement hoping to make people aware of the possiblities. If you don't think you have to worry fine.


Just one small point to be made here.. note I said "most large horse trailers" and "PICKUPS" small window there that makes up the overwhelming majority of what you see on the road... I have a 3 horse slant w/ a large dressing room being pulled by an '03 Cuimmins 4WD... loaded to the gills, trailer weighs around 10,500#.. I have LOTS of room to get to 26,000.... But I also have a Class A CDL with HAzmat/Tanker, Doubles/Triples... every show we get to I see things vehicles that qualify for CDL's that I am sure are not being driven with them. What's just as freightening is the number of trailers I have parked at shows for people who couldn't back them.... My wife is not great at it, but she is getting better.. I make her practice every time an opputunity arises....
 
   / I almost broke the law...alot #50  
rback33 said:
Just one small point to be made here.. note I said "most large horse trailers" and "PICKUPS" small window there that makes up the overwhelming majority of what you see on the road... I have a 3 horse slant w/ a large dressing room being pulled by an '03 Cuimmins 4WD... loaded to the gills, trailer weighs around 10,500#.. I have LOTS of room to get to 26,000.... But I also have a Class A CDL with HAzmat/Tanker, Doubles/Triples... every show we get to I see things vehicles that qualify for CDL's that I am sure are not being driven with them. What's just as freightening is the number of trailers I have parked at shows for people who couldn't back them.... My wife is not great at it, but she is getting better.. I make her practice every time an opputunity arises....
Also consider that the horse trailer is probably the last thing to get worked on around a farm. And, often as not sets outside in the weather.

On a positive note, you rarely see people pulling their horses at an excessive rate of speed.
 

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