I am simply baffled

[CurlyDave]

Mobil isn't selling Walmart bad oil. If they did and engines started needing rebuilds Mobil would have a class action suit on their hands in a hurry. Mobil might tell them if they want our oil that cheap come and pick it up yourself, and they probably do. I can imagine how much Mobil 1 Walmart sells.

I have toured engine oil test facilities at Cummins, Cat, Mack, and some oil producers. The all have a lot of test stands where new, or freshly rebuilt, engines are run 24/7 on a dyno. After a given number of hours engines are disassembled and checked internally.

I have also visited the engineering departments of Ruan and Yellow Freight.

All of the engineers at these places tell the same story. If the oil has an API label, it meets the API specification. If it meets the API specification it will protect your engine.

The big fleet operators, and many owner operators of the big rigs have their oil analyzed and change oil when the analysis says they should. For smaller engines this is not economical, so we change by either time or mileage.

But the bottom line is that no matter what the brand, if it has an API label, it meets the API spec and it is pretty much equivalent. The main reason some oils are less expensive at retail has almost nothing to do with the quality of the raw materials, including additive packages. It is efficiencies of scale in manufacture and distribution.

The labor to mix up a million gallons of lube oil is not a whole lot more than the labor to mix up a thousand. But, if that cost is spread over the million gallons it is lower per gallon.

I actually think that you are slightly better off with oil from a large producer, such as Mobil, or even the Wally World house brand. They have deeper pockets if they are sued, and will take more care to meet the spec. They also have the resources to have an in-house laboratory to do QC.

A small custom oil blender making up a few thousand gallons at a time in an industrial park is going to rely on an outside lab, and is going to be at the mercy of his feedstock suppliers.

Now the smaller guys may have good marketing, and tell a good story, but when the major engine producers and the major fleet operators, who hire engineers to really test and analyze their operations, say that the major brands are equal or better than the small independents, I believe them.

 

[California]

If the oil has an API label, it meets the API specification. If it meets the API specification it will protect your engine.

... no matter what the brand, if it has an API label, it meets the API spec and it is pretty much equivalent.

I actually think that you are slightly better off with oil from a large producer, such as Mobil, or even the Wally World house brand. They have deeper pockets if they are sued, and will take more care to meet the spec.

... when the major engine producers and the major fleet operators, who hire engineers to really test and analyze their operations, say that the major brands are equal or better than the small independents, I believe them.

Well said, Dave. I'm convinced.

 

[DieselPower]

But the bottom line is that no matter what the brand, if it has an API label, it meets the API spec and it is pretty much equivalent. The main reason some oils are less expensive at retail has almost nothing to do with the quality of the raw materials, including additive packages. It is efficiencies of scale in manufacture and distribution.

Dave, the bold part is the only part I would have to disagree with. You might be surprised at how much price can be attributed to base stock and additive cost. Being in the lube industry I have seen how much goes into a premium lube and the higher the base oil group number the higher the cost. Even additives alone can add quite a bit to a engine oils cost. I got a letter last week from a additive supplier saying that Moly was going up 39% this week, in fact most all additives have gone through the roof in the last couple of months. Their effected by higher crude oil prices just like everything else.

 

[WTA]

My tractor gelled up on me the other night real bad and I had to have the dealer mechanic come out and help me get the fuel system all cleaned out. It took us half the day to get it running again. I still can't explain it. It was 105 degrees out and it was fresh on road diesel in it from a CLEAN barrel. I just filled my barrel that morning at the gas station.

Anyway, when we were trying to diagnose it I told him all the recent service history including the fact that I have now switched it to Rotella full synthetic diesel oil. He told me not to tell anyone else at the dealer because it could void my warranty.

That doesn't make any sense at all. It's rated for heavy duty off road diesels so why not use it? That stuff got my last truck through a little over a million miles with only one basic engine overhaul. I really only did it to soup it up some. It didn't NEED anything.

 

[Egon]

I am curious; what does a violated animal run like?

Ran like a Ran like a r@ped ape... ape...

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Well, maybe I am wrong again. Not the first time, won't be the last. However, when I see ANY racing organization switching over to Supertech oil, I will switch too. Here is something you will never hear in the winner's circle:

"I owe my victory to the quality of Supertech oil we picked up at Wally World on the way here."

 

[SPYDERLK]

Here is something you will never hear in the winner's circle:

"I owe my victory to the quality of Supertech oil we picked up at Wally World on the way here."

This awaits only a major multi year sponsorship by the Wally brand.
larry

 

[john_bud]

Well, maybe I am wrong again. Not the first time, won't be the last. However, when I see ANY racing organization switching over to Supertech oil, I will switch too. Here is something you will never hear in the winner's circle:

"I owe my victory to the quality of Supertech oil we picked up at Wally World on the way here."

Would you feel better if that same racing personality was at the check out and handed you a note stating,

"This oil is priced $2.21 / quart higher than Supertech oil due the cost of my sponsorship, higher advertising costs, a higher profit margin and not due to the quality of the product - sucker!"



You do now understand that you are a willing dupe of the marketing / advertising industry, don't you? Higher prices don't automatically equate to higher quality. It is obvious that greater expenditures on advertising don't increase the product's quality - right? Or do you think that the fuel you pump into your vehicle is of higher quality than what you were pumping in 2-3 years ago? It is higher priced after all....so you must search out the HIGHEST priced fuel around to get "the good stuff". Or does it take a multi-millionaire personality telling you it's higher quality along with the higher price tag?



How about this for a thought on your racing analogy. You do know that the slowest car in the field probably has the same oil in it as the winner, right? Also the car with the engine that exploded probably had the same oil in it too? Why do people assign positive product traits to the winner of the race when the last place car also has the same product? Oil, fuel, tires, transmission, etc.

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Don't feel like arguing. I know what I know. I've seen the insides of more machines than most people have seen machines. If you use the cheap stuff, it's your money and your machine. Funny thing is this website is overflowing with complaints about cheap stuff, hardly ever a complaint about expensive stuff. Anything to do with the cost? Na, couldn't be.

 

[Soundguy]

The only issue is it is not an all or nothing discussion. You can have 2 inexpensive oil, and one be great.. and one not be great. Price alone is not a dictate of quality.

The hyd inards on my NH 7610s tracor are clean as a whistle, and operating at facory tolerances after 8ys of walmart UTF oil... so says the NH dealer that checked it for me when i had a remote replaced ( factory defect, not lube failure. ).

The lubes we have available today are light years better than what was out 50ys ago. I have my hands into alot of antiques... these are machines that gre up with 'yesterdays' oil technology.

Most of the ones I get have an oil fitler on them that has 3 coats of paint, and may be decades old, crank case oil looks like tar.. and trans/diff/hyds sump is more water than oil.

A good flush and cleaning.. and for the most part.. everything comes out ok.

pouring a 1$ a quart oil into a tractor doesn't cause it to explode.

IMHO.. constant attention to maintenance is more important than what brand of oil you use.

Take the cheapest jiffy store non brand oil you can find.. put it ina car and change that car's oil every 3K miles / 3mo. Car is LIKELY gonna be fine.. I've seen UOA's on 'cheaper oil... sure.. the add pack can sometimes start lower, and run out faster.. but if you are changing the oil before that happens.. it don't matter if you have an oil that goes 5K miles if you change it at 3K, and your cheaper oil, makes it to 3K ok.. etc.

From my heavy equipment and tractor experience, i can say that a machine likes just about any oil.. vs no oil.

The vast majority of lube related failures has always been 'lack of lube'.. not brand of lube.

The GC i work for generally uses fina products. In 'bad' economic times and years we have bought the cheapest non brand 'generic' drums or bulk oil we could get from our distribuitor just to get by with less overhead... all the while.. still keeping the same mainenance schedules. Looking at our repair charts vs hours, I don't see any differences in repair trends in years we used 'bobs discount oil'.. vs a more expensive brand.

Where i do see repairs, I look onthe tickets.. and when it is a lube related fialure, 9 times out of 10 it is a lack of lube... etc. I got 24 ys of equipment files in the draws beside my desk. mind you I've only been here for 15 of those years at this company.. etc.

Not intending to argue.. just pointing out that the name on the bottle, nor the person endorsing it, nor the price is a 100% guarantee of a products actual worth. You can see this in other fields as well. Take for instance, computer parts. Some of the cheapest HDD's are also the the ones with best track records. IE.. Western digital. Id wager they are cheaper due to their unit volume of sales. Video cards also come to mind. For instance.. look at the big chipset makers.. typically they sell a video card under their own brand.. and then OEM it to other makers.

Nvidia is one of the bigger video card makers.. their geforce chipset is on their own card.. plus cards to other manufacturers.. like PNY. Side by side, the PNY version of the card is cheaper than the OEM branded one.. yet you can use the same driver set with either card when updating drivers.. and you can look at the benchmarks and then decide if paying an extra 20-50% for the name onthe card is worth it if the performance is the same. In some cases.. it seems like it is a sheer vanity decision. I older days, there were distinctions many times between makers.. but affordable available technology has closed the gap. 20 ys ago if you wanted one of the most reliable modems.. you got a US robotics modem.. they were among the first to be 'recomended' by the irs for electronic filing.. etc. A no name brand modem might not offer the same performance, side by side. BTDT test... I ran a multi-line dial in online service for over a decade using only USR modems. Side by side they performed better, and had better warranty and service and customer incentives... As technology progressed.. you could get modems for 1/4 the price that worked just as good .. IE.. the brand name and extra $$ was just a bragging rights issue when it came down tot he brass tacks.

soundguy