I can't believe they did it (part deux)

[Jstpssng]

I think that most of us here would agree that people who get behind should be treated accordingly. Yet the penalty should also be in line with the deficiency.
Somebody mentioned unclaimed properties... I've never found my name on the list but have discovered and notified others. What I don't understand is how they can list money with the owner's name and address; yet not notify that person. My nephew's last check from a summer job listed his name and address where he'd lived with his parents for most of his life; yet the former employer (CVS pharmacy) didn't even try to mail it to him.

 

[MossRoad]

I think that most of us here would agree that people who get behind should be treated accordingly. Yet the penalty should also be in line with the deficiency.
Somebody mentioned unclaimed properties... I've never found my name on the list but have discovered and notified others. What I don't understand is how they can list money with the owner's name and address; yet not notify that person. My nephew's last check from a summer job listed his name and address where he'd lived with his parents for most of his life; yet the former employer (CVS pharmacy) didn't even try to mail it to him.

If you've been following the case of the $8 fiasco, the property in question was purchased for use as a rental property. The owner moved out of state and didn't change the info with the tax people. The tax people sent him notices to his last known address and to the rental property. The tenants didn't forward the mail to him.

It's on him to provide proper contact info to the tax people.

 

[the old grind]

You're arguably right Moss. But does such a penalty fit the severity of the offense? A lot can be at stake for someone whose asset value is mostly invested in real estate what is assumed a secure long term investment. The 'little guys' may have little more than their homes and their clothes.

That's the outrage when infused (I like that one) with no grace period, and 'must sue to recover'. I bet the government would divert more than $9 worth of their legal resources. Be assured that their attys can beat up tougher guys than you can afford for the value of the property, if 30 seconds of reality says just suck it up, go away quietly, and file for bankruptcy if you feel you have to.

Meanwhile, my invite to move to 'the mitten' remains warm. Similar, but cheaper travel fare than to Russia, and you don't have to learn another alphabet.

 

[Jstpssng]

If you've been following the case of the $8 fiasco, the property in question was purchased for use as a rental property. The owner moved out of state and didn't change the info with the tax people. The tax people sent him notices to his last known address and to the rental property. The tenants didn't forward the mail to him.

It's on him to provide proper contact info to the tax people.

About six months later, in June 2012, Rafaeli was notified that he had underpaid his 2011 property tax bill by $496. Rafaeli made subsequent property tax payments on time and in full—and, in January 2013, he attempted to settle the unpaid tax debt, according to court documents. A little more than a year later, in February 2014, Rafaeli's rental property was one of 11,000 properties put up for auction by Oakland County

They don't really say that, do they? It's kind of vague what happened. Where's Paul Harvey when you need him? Yet the penalty still doesn't fit the deficiency.

 

[goeduck]

You're arguably right Moss. But does such a penalty fit the severity of the offense? A lot can be at stake for someone whose asset value is mostly invested in real estate what is assumed a secure long term investment. The 'little guys' may have little more than their homes and their clothes.

I agree that in the Michigan case the owners losing the full value of the property is just plain wrong. That can set a person/family into a tailspin where they end up on public assistance. On the property that I am going to bid on in January the owners bought it for $35K which is about what I am thinking of bidding. Using simple numbers to make a point, the County takes the $8500 due to Caesar and distrubutes the $26,500 balance back to the owners. That $26,500 may be enough to help them pay medical bills or get a new start on life or whatever. Maybe it goes up their nose, I do not know. But is seems right to me that the $26,500 goes to them and not to the County. I do not know their situation but Caesar taking what is theirs is not right.
Capitalism :thumbsup: Socialism :thumbdown:

 

[MossRoad]

They don't really say that, do they? It's kind of vague what happened. Where's Paul Harvey when you need him? Yet the penalty still doesn't fit the deficiency.

It started in 2011, when he underpaid by $496. He didn't try to settle that one until 2013. Then he miscalculated his interest by $8.41. With interest and penalties, it grew to $258. He didn't try to settle that until 2014. By then, the only reason he figured something was up was because the tenants stopped paying rent, because the house was seized by the county and they moved out.

He'd left the state with no forwarding info. How the heck did he think someone would contact him for payment?

And all the while, he kept sending in what he thought was the normal tax payment.

Apparently, they don't look at the address on the check (if that was correct), and just go by the records, which is what they should do.

While I completely disagree with their policy of selling it and not giving any proceeds over the amount owed back to the owner, he set the wheels in motion by not paying the correct amount two different times, and not changing his mailing address with the county. Why didn't he check with the county on an annual basis, especially since he lived out of state, and especially since he muffed the first payment by $500? Then muffed it again by $258!

Even if they would have given him the overage amount, it was only something like $24,500, he's still out about $35,500 from his original purchase price He bought the house for $60K, and it is now worth $120K, and he missed a few years of rentals as well.

If they change the policy and make it so that the owner gets anything over the amount owed after the auction, it's still not anywhere near the amount it's worth.

How far should the county go in looking for him to pay the bill before they seize the property?
How much time should they give him to pay his taxes?
[FONT=&quot]How long should they keep the proceeds from the sale hoping he'll turn up?[/FONT]

 

[4570Man]

You ever own rental property where the renters don't pay? It's horrible. When I was young, maybe 8 till into my 20's, I helped my dad clean up several of my grandparent's rental properties after the renters destroyed them. So yeah. You don't pay for 2 months, you're out. I have empathy for people that fall on hard times. However, I have to make my payments, too. So, you're out. I lost money on you for 2 months. Consider it a charitable contribution. Free place to live for 2 months. But you still have to go. That's business. No hard feelings, but you have to go.

I pulled up a bunch of brush to make my building a less appealing homeless hangout. It’s been an ongoing battle for years. If they had the slightest degree of respect I’d leave them alone. But they steal everything they can carry, leave trash everywhere, and crap all over the place. Zero sympathy here. My family deals in rental properties and that’s another disaster.

 

[two_bit_score]

We were involved in a case not too long ago where a tax appraisal district erroneously dropped a dwelling house from a parcel. Of course this caused the tax bill to be significantly reduced. The parcel was the owners homestead residence. He owned several rental properties worth collectively over $1 million.

When he got the tax bill in the first year that the dwelling had been dropped he simply paid it and never mentioned it. This occurred for several years. Finally the tax appraisal district looked at it, realized their mistake, added the dwelling back and increased the value of the entire parcel to reflect market value. That got his attention. Especially when they sent him a corrected bill for every year the dwelling had been dropped.

He sqwalked to everyone. He actually thought he had the upper hand because it was 鍍heir mistake?
He said he just never noticed it. :laughing:

We couldn稚 figure a way to argue for him with a straight face. Especially when the tax appraisal district routinely gives back over collections. If you had a building a removed it from the property but never took the time to advise the tax appraisal district and you came in with solid proof that it had been removed up to 5 years back they refund the overpayments.

The Tax man usually Always catches up with you.

 

[ovrszd]

Moss, your patience is commendable.

 

[MossRoad]

Moss, your patience is commendable.

30 years in I.T. asking "Have you tried turning it off, and then on again?"