I Hate Computers

Bird · Aug 15, 2001

GlueGuy, I hadn't heard about that plan; guess I won't be needing any XP then./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Ol' Bill don't want to just be the richest man in the world; he wants to own it all.

And Wingnut, Gateway may be a fine computer; I don't know. But 3 years ago, before I bought this IBM, I called Gateway three times; talked to a different person each time, and each time they promised to send me some literature (the second and third times, I told them about the previous calls and they said they didn't know what happened, but that they would guarantee I'd get the literature this time). I'm still waiting for it to arrive./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif At least it simplified my shopping, since I sure eliminated them from the list./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

cowboydoc · Aug 15, 2001

My medical software is the same way and it really burns my butt. Every six months you have to call in to get a new code to keep your software running. It's an excellent program but it just doesn't seem right that you pay for something and then they keep the keys for it.

Alan L. · Aug 15, 2001

I hate windows too. However everything I need runs on it, so what can you do?

I have bought exclusively Dell computers in the last 4 years, including several small fileservers, desktops, and latitude notebooks (I'm using a P2-300 one now - nearly 3 years old).
We have had great service and Dell's service has been excellent except for one case. One of our notebook CDrom drives wouldn't read a clients CD that was done with a CD writing drive. All the other systems I tried it on read the CD fine. Dell wouldn't replace the CDrom drive in the notebook (even though the CD would work in 2 identical notebooks) because they said they don't support CDs except those that come from a software manufacturer. Turns out this CDrom drive would read any other CD I put in there, but refused to read any CDs made with the CD writer drive. I pitched a fit and said I would now switch my business elsewhere. A couple of weeks later I ordered some more Dells.

Alan L., TX

r0GuE · Aug 16, 2001

Trying to timePC buying is like timing the market. Now is a pretty good time, prices are quite low. Any machine you buy now will be quite ast enough for many years to come.
Grandkids need PC? Best reason I can think to buy a new one. Have fun with it! Worry not.

Rogue

StoneHeartFarm · Aug 16, 2001

Glueguy,

BIOS handle the IO's or is that up to windows?

Have you had any experience with Linux? I've even though about switching from the ol 98. I just don't believe it will run windows programming, although I've had several people tell me it will.

According to Geek.com, Rambus stock is in the dumpster. Dropped from over $100.00 to under $10.00.

SHF

GlueGuy · Aug 16, 2001

BIOS handle the IO's or is that up to windows?

I presume you're talking about the interrupts? The PCI bus is totally different from the old IDE bus; it doesn't really use the old IDE IRQ scheme at all. Although if you look in your system information, you will see different items assigned to IRQ's, they are all "virtual" and you will often see multiple devices using the same one ('cause there are only 16 of 'em).

Windows NT installs its own BIOS that replaces the hardware BIOS. For all intents and purposes, it all becomes "virtual".

As for running Windows programs on Linux, that is kind of the holy grail. It's not quite there yet, but there are several things in the works. The only downside is that Linux becomes almost as flakey as a Windows box when it's used as a desktop. Different world than servers.

The GlueGuy

GlueGuy · Aug 16, 2001

Bird,

Gateway is one of those companies that is sort of "on the ropes". They are exploring different ways to improve their margins, but they aren't a big enough player to take advantage of scale. They would have to increase their sales by (at least) 2X or 3X to get into that zone.

I feel their venture into retail stores is costing them dearly. Likewise Apple's decision to open a bunch of retail stores may be a mistake. We'll see.

The GlueGuy

StoneHeartFarm · Aug 17, 2001

Glueguy,

In some ways, I still think 3.1 was better. More stable and fewer crashes. XP is supposed to be more stable than 98, but this rental scheme...

I've noticed that my BIOS has a switch for letting the OS handle the interrupt requests. Doesn't seem to make any difference if the switch is on or off. The shared interrupt thing works fine until you have 2 devices trying to run on the same one at the same time. Then stuff gets flaky.

Frankly, I would like to see Linux succeed. Gates needs some competition and there's enough people mad at windows to give him some competition. Even if Linux didn't work any better that Windows, it would still give a lot of us a choice.

SHF

scruffy · Aug 17, 2001

Glueguy, you've hit the reason why I've limited the computers at our house to a max 850mhz cpu. We've got 2 850's, 1 700, 1 500, 2 450's, and an old 166mhz floating around here. The least memory in each is 256meg of ram.
I have yet to buy a 'store-bought' computer, all of the above are built here in house, and many of the relations have home-builds that I have made for them.
Like Harv, I add RAM to them, and keep small upgrades going as needed for the game machine. My wife is into the photo thing, so her machine is the 'fanciest' in the house...I'm running an 'old' AMD 700, which suits me fine. (although intell chips do run quite abit cooler...AMD's require a lot more fans to keep them cooled down.)
As for OS, Bird, I would recommend staying with 98 vs ME, but then that is my personal preferance.
Personal choice is VAX/VMS (Open VMS), the systems are very stable, and unlike NuTs, do not require rebooting everytime you make a change to something. Of course, many of our Pro's out there will think I'm nuts, but it has also provided me with a good living for several years.

looch · Aug 17, 2001

...I would like to see Linux succeed. Gates needs some competition...

I agree with you that it would be nice to see Linux succeed. However I tend to think that - contrary to popular belief - Linux will do more harm to the expensive proprietary UNIX servers and workstations than to Windows. As I have found and as GlueGuy mentioned, Linux has a ways to go in the desktop environment - at least the free window managers that i have tried. I understand that you can pay for a Mosaic window manager that is pretty decent.

Alan L. · Aug 17, 2001

Having had some very shallow experience with Xenix in the past, I fooled around with Linux on 2 occasions and ended up in a straight jacket both times. I never could get the windows desktop thingy running, and trying to set up an email server using sendmail was near impossible. I got on a Linux newsgroup for help on setting it up and was told that if I didn't know I didn't belong on that newsgroup.

Anyway, my mailserver is a Windows 2000 machine running Mailsite. Very easy to set up.

Alan L., TX

Knight9 · Aug 17, 2001

Redhat is pretty good from everything I've seen of it.

http://www.redhat.com

Kevin

Edited by Knight9 on 08/17/01 03:51 PM (server time).

looch · Aug 17, 2001

That's what I use - version 6.2. It frequently locks up when I browse the Internet (Netscape). I shouldn't jump to conlcusions about it being the window manger's fault though. It may be any number of things. Kind of like saying I only have computer problems when the machine is turned on - must be the power supply. I have heard others complain about Linux's reliabillity as a desktop operating system, so I assumed this is what I was experiencing. Also, I have always installed Linux on my second rate/older machines. I bet things would be different if I went and bought one of those nice new Hewlett Packard 64 bit Itanium systems./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird · Aug 18, 2001

I have another question for you computer/electronics experts. Is it better to turn off the computer when it's not being used, or just leave it on all the time? All my computers in the past were shut down and the power turned off when not in use, but this one I'm now using has been left on 24 hours a day. Does it make a difference?

Bird

Anonymous Poster · Aug 18, 2001

The new one you have coming... will go into "energy saving mode"... draws about 5 - 20 watts... like a kids nightlight, after a period of "non-use"...

One advantage, windows is not constantly updating/rewriting/reading it's registry and other hidden user files {as it does everytime you normally boot and shutdown the system}

One disadvantage is if you and the Mrs. are away... and a storm moves in the area... unless you have a "real" $100. surge suppressor not the $7. unit that only prevents the house from burning down {after the computer is wiped out}

Of course it still may not matter, when the lightning strike hits a "telephone line" around the corner and spikes your unit through the modem... even in the off position... /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

GlueGuy · Aug 18, 2001

SHF

I don't think 3.1 was more stable. I was early on in pushing the limits of 3.1, and I jumped all over NT when it came out. A major improvement. XP is just NT finally trickling down. Over the next few years people will wonder why they put up with the weirdnesses of 95/98/ME.

As for interrupt sharing, it works fine if the devices are all PCI. My machine is all PCI, and I share a lot of interrupts. Here's my list:

0 System timer
1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
3 (free)
2 Programmable interrupt controller
4 Communications Port (COM1)
5 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
5 VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
5 VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
5 ESS SOLO-1 PCI AudioDrive
6 Standard Floppy Disk Controller
7 Printer Port (LPT1)
8 System CMOS/real time clock
9 SCI IRQ used by ACPI bus
10 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
10 3Com Fast EtherLink XL 10/100Mb TX Ethernet NIC (3C905-TX)
10 Texas Instruments OHCI IEEE 1394 Host Controller
11 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
11 Hayes Accura V.90 PCI modem
11 S3 Inc. Savage4 GT
12 WheelMouse1 (PS/2)
13 Numeric data processor
14 Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)
14 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
15 Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo)
15 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller

Scruffy

You'll get no arguments from me on any of those scores. I think VMS is a fine OS too. Only thing I know that is more reliable is Guardian/NSK.

My wife's computer is the longest-running upgrade project that I've ever done. It started out _____w_a_y____ back as an original IBM PC/AT. I have slowly upgraded everything in it; rarely spending more than $200 for any single upgrade. It's now a 350MHz Athlon w/128MB of memory and SCSI disk/DVD/CDRW. She'll get another upgrade one of these days, but I think it will just be more memory.

Bird

That is potentially one of those "religious" arguments. The new computers are designed to shut down components reliably, and I think that's fine. Saves energy.

I've also found that if you regularly start/stop the hard drives, they will "give you a clue" when they are getting close to one of those disastrous failures. If you leave the HD on all the time, you'll never know that it's about to fail at startup time until the rare occasion when you do try to start it up.

I leave my computer to do it's own "stand-by" operation when I have it on during the day. However, I usually shut it down completely when I'm done at the end of the day.

The computer I use at work stays on all week, but gets shutdown for the weekends.

The GlueGuy

Bird · Aug 18, 2001

Thanks, John & GlueGuy. I was just wondering which would make a computer last longest. I do have a TrippLite Internet Office UPS power protection/battery backup with both power cord and phone line routed through it. With my last IBM, I shut it down at night, like you do GlueGuy, but with the current one, I've just been leaving it on all the time.

And GlueGuy, I read a story in the local paper this morning about Microsoft's ongoing court battle that indicated XP might not be shipped in October as planned without some modifications. Of course, I don't understand all of it, and also don't know whether I would want XP or not (even if it's not a rental deal).

Bird

Harv · Aug 18, 2001

Bird -

What with the energy saving features on today's computers, I would just turn it on when you first need it in the morning, and then shut it off when you go to bed. There is some value to rebooting once in a while (the system gets a "fresh start" and tidies up a few things), so why not make it part of your routine?

Having said that, I leave two of my computers on 24 hours a day, because:

1. they double as fax machines, and I want them accessible any time day or night
2. I have them programmed to run incremental backups in the middle of the night
3. I have my web sites programmed to download strategic data in the middle of the night
4. I'm too impatient to wait for them to boot up in the morning. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

As a software developer, I manage to crash them just often enough to get the benefits of rebooting that I mentioned above. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

In other words, eveyone has their own criteria on this matter. The technology is solid enough that you should just do what makes you happy.

Bird · Aug 18, 2001

Thanks to all of you. Harv, one reason I've left this one on was for the fax (will not be important in the foreseeable future) and I had some of the maintenance stuff programmed to run at night (also will probably not be important in the future). So, I think I will be shutting everything down at night.

Bird

scruffy · Aug 18, 2001

Glueguy, the old 166mhz started life as an NEC 286 with a whopping 2 megs of RAM and an 8bit bus! Through the years it was upgraded to a 386,486DX40,P-90 and finally the 166, at that point, my wife and son were getting too active, and I started building extra 'puters'.
The only reason I went to AMD cpu's was the cost factor, but the Intel's Instruction sets are a lot longer than the AMD's and used to be (in the 486 days) twice as many of them.
I've found the AMD chips to be good cpu's, but they sure require more cooling....which can be a problem at times. The 700 was pain in the backsides to get it running cool enough to keep from causing write errors to the h/d. Of course, I also was fighting an unknown problem with a brand new video card that was flakey right out of the box. M/B on this puter still runs hotter than it should, but I made up my mind a year and a half ago to let it 'fry'....turkey's still hanging in there!

Bird, like Glueguy, I shut mine down nightly...wife leaves it on.
I like the 'cleansing' effect on the system, and feel that the unit runs better overall. Even the networks I run, I have a regular bounce schedule for the VAX's. I bounce them once a month, but have seen many of them running for a year or more without being bounced. Of course hospital's get a little antsy when you want to bring the system down for maintenance....even though it is in their best interest to do so.