I have been notified, very politely I might add..

CountryBoy · Jul 16, 2003

( best system for purification in your home is a reverse osmosis system )

I disagree,distillation is the most effective way to remove impurities from drinking water.
If you just need to purify your DRINKING water go to Sears and look at their countertop Kenmore water distillers.Distillation(about $120) will remove the most impurities.
This is a good setup if you are just interested in purifying your drinking water,it is not feasible to purify all of the water you would use in your home,the distiller is just to make drinking water.

itsmecindi · Jul 16, 2003

We had a culligan system for awhile that used the salt and everything was slimy. I'd bring fresh eggs in the house to wash them and bust half of them because I couldn't hang on to them! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Currmudgeon · Jul 16, 2003

Re: I have been notified, very politely I might ad

( Egon and others - distilled water is not good for your health as it is demineralised. )

This is marketing bull by the various water treatment and bottling companies. There's not enough minerals in drinking water to do you any good. You get vastly more from your food.

One complaint I've often heard about RO and distilled water is that, because it is "too pure" it doesn't taste good. There can be truth to that, depending on your personal tastes.

Currmudgeon · Jul 16, 2003

Re: I have been notified, very politely I might ad

( Just a note on pesticides. I've been told that boiling is an acceptable way to get rid of these as they are more volatile than water and the boiling will drive them off)

Depends on the design of the still. Often, volatiles will pass right through the still and into the finished water. Solids and bacteria are effectively removed by distillation.

This all points to the first rule of water treatment, find out what you have to treat. In the case at hand, we have the possibility of contaminatioon from livestock waste and possibly pesticides, along with the general run of well water nuisances.

You've got to get a good analysis to find out what's in there, so you know what to be scared about. Often the health dept will do well water quality analyses. If not, an environmental lab can do this, as has already been suggested. That can be the best two hundred bucks you spend.

Hardness is not a worry. The test done by miost water softener companies is for hardness. It's a neat test, as lots of crap precipitates out in the flask. If you have well water, I will bet a beer it's hard. You can use any old water softener to get rid of most hardness.

Iron and manganese are nuisances. Iron tastes bad, and leaves brown stains. Manganese leaves black stains. Neither will hurt you.

Sulfur is a common contaminant. It makes the water stink. It won't hurt you, but it may make the water too nasty to drink.

With livestock on top of a sand aquifer, I'd be concerned about bacteria and nitrates.

Bacteria, as we all know, can make us sick. The Total Coliform and Fecal Coliform tests are the standard ones, but the coli aren't the bad stuff. It's just that if you have fecal coliform, you assume there's also worse things in the water, or may be. You can kill most of the bac with chlorine and remove the chlorine with an activated carbon filter under the sink. But if I had bac contamination, I'd be looking for another drinking water source.

Nitrates have been linked with birth defects in infants. It comes from the urine leaching into the water. It is very soluable and won't filter out with sand. RO will remove nitrates.

Anything with a name you can't pronounce, is reason to ask hard questions. Usually you're looking at pesticides or organic chemicals. RO will take that stuff out, but be certain the particular RO unit you buy will remove those particular contaminants. Activated carbon will remove small quantities, too. Again, I'd be looking for another water source, if I had significant contamination with pesticides or organics.

My nasty water has iron, manganese, and sulfur, and is hard. Right now, I'm looking at building a chlorination plant to oxidise out the Fe, Mn, and S, followed by a sand filter to remove the soilids the oxidation process will generate. Then, I'll put in a carbon filter to get rid of the Cl taste. Maybe I can cob something together over the winter.

looch · Jul 16, 2003

Re: I have been notified, very politely I might ad

This is marketing bull...

One might say the same about the companies advocating its consumption.

A couple of arguments I've heard:

It's not so much that distilled water doesn't provide minerals, but more because distilled water will leach minerals from your body and food that you cook it in.

Acidity: Distilled water exposed to the air will become more acidic.

I can't say either way which is better for you. One thing I believe is that the human body isn't as frail as some imagine. This is why I'll continue to drink safe, "live" water.

kubotasaurus · Jul 16, 2003

Re: I have been notified, very politely I might ad

Curmudgeon,

De mineralization is the removal of minerals, not the addition of. The argument is that distilled water, since it is demineralized, removes minerals from the body when you drink it. I'm not trying to tell anyone that there are minerals in water they can't get from their diet. In fact, I'm saying the opposite. There are no minerals in demineralized water - so they will be leached from your body to restore the chemical equilibrium when you drink it. That's hard science - not speculation.

The reason this happens is basic chemistry - the body as a chemical system will be forced towards equilibrium. In this case, that means that certain minerals will be removed from the body by the influx of the very pure, demineralized, water.

So, basic lecture over. There is no argument that distilled water will gradually leach minerals from your body. The argument is over whether those minerals are essential for long term health. There is therefore debate about the long term effects of drinking distilled or otherwise demineralized water - but it is not "marketing bull".

A specific example of when drinking distilled water is less than optimal for your short term health is when your electrolytes are down after heavy exercise (or perhaps the runs!)

K

P.S. High levels of Manganese (Mn) and Iron (Fe) are bad for you too. Manganese interferes with your body's metabolism of iron. High levels of iron can have a range of effects - ask anyone who has ever been prescribed an iron supplement - a common one is constipation. Excess iron can also be very bad for you if you have one of many diseases that impact your iron metabolism - porphyria is one.

CountryBoy · Jul 16, 2003

Re: I have been notified, very politely I might ad

( This is marketing bull by the various water treatment and bottling companies. There's not enough minerals in drinking water to do you any good. You get vastly more from your food. )

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Chuck52 · Jul 16, 2003

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Kubotasaurus,

 The reason this happens is basic chemistry - the body as a chemical system will be forced towards equilibrium. In this case, that means that certain minerals will be removed from the body by the influx of the very pure, demineralized, water. 

Biochemist here. I understand how you might be confused by this, but in fact this is simply not correct. If you have a normal diet, your water probably supplies only trace amounts of the minerals your body requires, and is not a significant source of any of them. An exception is fluoride, which is added to many municipal water supplies because it was found that most areas across the country have limited fluoride in the water and foods grown there, and that adding fluoride can help prevent cavity formation.

Interesting discussion about distillation, reverse osmosis, and other topics, with lots of mis-information. As it happens, though I work in a chemistry department, I recently bought 30 gallons of WalMart distilled water to use in a closed cycle water chilling system. It was kind of irritating. Our really pure water, which is either from an all-glass still and uses deionized water as a feed source, or the alternative, which is RO treated water which also uses the deionized water as feed source, was too pure and caused problems with the copper cooling surfaces in the chiller. On the other hand, the deionized water wasn't clean enough, at least all the time, and led to some interesting electrochemistry in the X-ray generator I was cooling. So, though I should have been able to make suitable water in house, so to speak, it was easier to buy the stuff from WalMart at about $0.50/gallon.

Chuck

Currmudgeon · Jul 16, 2003

Re: I have been notified, very politely I might ad

( There are no minerals in demineralized water - so they will be leached from your body to restore the chemical equilibrium when you drink it. That's hard science - not speculation.)

Not so. There are so few minerals in normal well water, and fewer in most municipal water, that it doesn't make any appreciable difference.

In fact, any water dilutes your stomach contents. The stomach and intestines osmotically absorb the water from your gut and pass it to your bloodstream, where it dilutes your blood. Eventually, your kidneys excrete it to your bladder, where it dilutes your urine. That, then pollutes the creek. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The GI tract also absorbs minerals and other foodstuffs from their contents, not just the water, and the kidneys excrete them out. The body is performing a constant balancing act, balancing salinity vs fluid volume. What is important, is the overall minerals and water you take in. These must be balanced within some relatively broad limits.

( A specific example of when drinking distilled water is less than optimal for your short term health is when your electrolytes are down after heavy exercise (or perhaps the runs!))

If your electrolytes are that low, drinking any kind of water will hurt you. You should be sucking Gator Aide or something better. Yo'll not get enough useful electrolytes from your drinking water alone to help you.

( P.S. High levels of Manganese (Mn) and Iron (Fe) are bad for you too. ...)

Perhaps, but at the levels commonly found in well water, I've heard of no data demonstrating harmfullness. The EPA Drinking Water Standards don't list health related MCLs for Fe and Mn. Once they're oxidized, I'm not sure they can be absorbed by the body.

Anyway, they make for some nasty water. I think it will drive you to drinking bottled water, or ditch water, long before the concentrations get to a dangerous level. This is actually a serious health problem in developing countries. People will drink bad water that tastes good, rather than safe, irony water.

JohnMiller3 · Jul 16, 2003

Re: I have been notified, very politely I might ad

...Biochemist here... 

Hi Chuck,

Do you have the percentage breakdown of "windshield washer fluid"? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif