I hope my story will save someone one day

[billbill1]

I have dropped many trees in my lifetime but it isn't one of my favorite things to do. Too many things can go wrong and very quickly. I much prefer cutting up deadfall or trees that have been pushed down with a dozer. Glad everything is on the mend for you and I hope for a speedy recovery.

 

[DDT]

At this time I would like thank every one for all your kind words and sympathy. I am very glad all the flowers I got were not at the grave site.

Yes, your right, what should I have done to made this a normal routine.
First, if I had one more person, I would have cut the y's off the trunk before dropping the tree. I do that a lot with extra help and the loader in the right place to protect the bucket man (may have to rethink this part too.)

Second, I should of waited untill more help was here.

I know a few wonder how I got myself into this bad situation and so have I, many, many times. I still feel I did nothing wrong under normal conditions, but this one ended up not being normal. With all do respect, the science of a tree falling to what looked like the heavy side is what should have happened, but it didn't. There is no ryme of reason here. You have all heard the phase, sh_t happens. Believe me, it can and does in the blink of an eye.
As for the next time, I will take EXTRA time to figure out a plan of attack, with at least one other person helping me.

 

[jbrumberg]

DDT:

I hope you are recovering well. Your thread reinforced my use of my chainsawing safety hardhat. I got "nicked" by a dead limb hiding in the tree canopy this afternoon. I would have been gashed by the branch or worse if I was less careful. I put another scar on my hardhat, but not on me. Thanks for your safety reminder. Jay

 

[norsker]

I'm guessing that a picture of the stump would show an undercut wedge & the hinge cut through....

Good thoughts Mike and a high probability that atleast one of these elements was present in this mishap. BTW, an undercut wedge is what`s known as a Humboldt notch and these can be done very safely if done properly.

I have another theory as to what happened based on this statement

I cut a slope for the tree to fall south, I got about 2" away from the back side and pulled the saw out. My first thought, this is NOT RIGHT, it should have moved before now. The saw kerf was still the same so it was still not even want to come my way. Before I could turn and run the tree clasped the saw kerf and slid down the ramp I cut, then dopped to the ground very fast.

and since DDT has not provided any clarification I`ll tell you how I read his account of what happened. BTW, I`m very sorry that he was hurt and I am not trying to kick the guy while he is down, we all make mistakes.

I can easily read DDT`s account to state that he did not make a notch and a felling, or back cut, but instead attempted to drop the tree using a farmer`s notch which is nothing more than a sloped backcut in the desired direction of fall. The problem with this type of felling of any tree with any weight to it is that it is difficult to make a good hinge which is the primary control over the direction of fall, there is no step created to prevent a kickback of the stem when the hinge does break, with no support under the stem and no hinge the base wants to fall to the ground meaning that you can have a standing tree with no attachment to the ground(no control over direction), and the angled cut makes for a weak structure both within the resultant stump and the falling stem and wedging to control direction becomes impossible.

When DDT stated that the tree "clasped the saw kerf" and "slid down the ramp" I could read this to say that a barberchair(the stem split vertically) was established in the trunk which forced the heel of the stem outward closing the kerf. The leverage against the sloped stump cut within the still standing but now slightly leaning tree would be tremendous, easily enough to break a 2" hinge, now rapidly forcing the tree in an uncontrolled slide down the stump. It happens fast, just as DDT stated.

I`d like to know more about this incident and I`d like to know if I`m even close to the way it really happened.

I appreciate DDT taking the time and effort to post his account so that a good discussion can ensue.

 

[IslandTractor]

Norsker, you sound like you have a lot of technical knowledge and experience. Your comments, while a bit over my head (I don't recognize a lot of the terminology), are exactly what I was hoping someone would post to help us understand DDT's accident. Having said that, could you please explain a bit more for those of us who "cut down" trees without knowing the difference between a Humboldt notch and the Humboldt current. Are you aware of any good web tutorials. I don't cut trees bigger than 10 inches often but would like to know more about doing it safely especially as I work in an area with brisk winds and need to control tree fall direction away from roads etc.

 

[Defective]

Kinds of Notches

How to Cut Wood Safely

Felling Trees

There...that should get you started...

 

[IslandTractor]

Kinds of Notches

...

The second and third are useful. Thanks. However the first link does not work for me.

 

[DDT]

It has all ways been a little diffacult for me to explain things though the end of my fingers.
norsker, Your theory is correct. Since I want to learn to (sence I am still here).
Yes this was what I call a larger tree, but it was extreamly top heavy, a elm if it makes any difference.
The 3rd link helped me under stand a lot. Pictures are the best for me. The farmer cut you refer to is what is mostly used around here. OK I screwed up bad but I never new any better either. I guess some ideas were raised is not always correct. I may be red in the face right now but this still should not have happened to me. Why was't this materail in my vo ag class in high school? Never seen it before.

 

[flusher]

You see a lot of strange, scary stuff happen with chain saws.

Saw an ad last week during the NFL playoffs showing Brett Favre working around his place in MS or AL using a chain saw in shorts and a T-shirt. I know Brett is tough, but I don't think he's tougher than his saw.

 

[norsker]

DDT,

Noone is born knowing all that they will need to know to make it through life unscathed. I appreciate that you shared what happened to you despite the fact that it may cause you some embarrassment, but don`t beat yourself up too badly for not knowing any better. I`ve got alot of hours with a saw in my hands and I`m probably too comfortable with them for my own good but I still feel that chainsaws may be the most dangerous tool a person could buy, both because of the inherent danger of the saw itself and because of the situations that saw use puts a person in, yet no training is required to purchase or operate a saw and infact, proper training is hard to come by.

Thanks Defective for posting those links. There are others on the `net as well but those links convey the general concepts.

 

[jbrumberg]

Defective:

I personally do not like your "nom de guerre/plume" due to the fact that your posts contribute to community safety. You provided me with information that may keep me from doing something stupid. We all are in this together. Jay

 

[Jstpssng]

You see a lot of strange, scary stuff happen with chain saws.

Saw an ad last week during the NFL playoffs showing Brett Favre working around his place in MS or AL using a chain saw in shorts and a T-shirt. I know Brett is tough, but I don't think he's tougher than his saw.

Also, some drug company is running ads for their product (Vivatrin?) which includes a guy running chainsaw wearing sweat shorts.

 

[DDT]

This is a quote from the web site.
More people are killed while felling trees than during any other logging activity.

These accidents CAN be avoided!


It really hit home to me. I also was surised were the sayftey zone was at.

 

[Defective]

The second and third are useful. Thanks. However the first link does not work for me.

Yup...something weird happened there...

I'll try again.

Kinds of Notches

(triple checked this time.)

 

[Defective]

jbrumberg:

I'm happy to be able to provide information that helps others work safer.

As for the name...

I've been using it for years. Seems to be a fairly easy one to get on the first try when signing up for something new. Plus it's memorable. Much better than the kind of names that get recommended by the sign-up software always recommends. (don't wanna be known as Sam41637 )

 

[SPYDERLK]

Thanks norsker! I can see the reasons for what happened now. It just never occurred to me that that kind of cut would be used on a tree more than about 6".
Larry

 

[IslandTractor]

Kinds of Notches

(triple checked this time.)

Thanks for reposting. That table and cartoons are very helpful. I'd never used the open faced notch technique and that is the one described by OSHA as "clearly the safest".

Looking at the description of the open faced notch there is an inconsistency with the cartoon. The cartoon shows two 45 degree angle cuts while the description calls for a 70 degree top cut and a 20 degree bottom cut. Does anyone know which is correct and why it is important?

 

[Defective]

Thanks for reposting. That table and cartoons are very helpful. I'd never used the open faced notch technique and that is the one described by OSHA as "clearly the safest".

Looking at the description of the open faced notch there is an inconsistency with the cartoon. The cartoon shows two 45 degree angle cuts while the description calls for a 70 degree top cut and a 20 degree bottom cut. Does anyone know which is correct and why it is important?

You're welcome.

I have a tendency to be somewhere between a conventional notch and an open faced notch. (in other words...conventional with a bit of slop to the bottom) I think the description is of an "ideal" cut. I've never carried accurate angle measuring equipment into the bush.

The purpose of this style of notch is served as long as the notch is somewhere around 90 degrees total as this keeps the hinge intact as long as possible. A shallower bottom cut leaves more support to the hinge.

 

[Defective]

It just never occurred to me that that kind of cut would be used on a tree more than about 6".
Larry

Any style of notch will do fine as long as it leaves a hinge. Even a small tree can do unexpected things.

I've always preferred to use my wedges to push a tree over rather than trimming the hinge until it starts on its own.

The problem with a "farmer cut" is that there is nothing left to control the tree when it starts to fall. The hinge keeps the tree from twisting. A farmer cut also makes wedges pretty much useless as the back cut is angled into the grain. If you put a wedge in, it can split the stump instead of supporting the weight of the tree.

 

[patrick_g]

OH WOW MAN, What a bummer when you are experienced and think you are working within your experience, see nothing to warn you, and then Murphy steps in and everything turns to goose grease.

I am waiting for a cold snap and ice storm to fade and will then be going back into the woods to do some more cutting. I have a lot of larger eastern red cedar (juniper) trees marked for extraction and milling for ornamental trim lumber. You can bet your sweet bippy that I will be a much more cautious citizen after reading your report!

I am older but probably no wiser than you. I have been singularly successful at felling trees in difficult circumstances or close quarters with no collateral damage.

A couple times wind shifts have trapped my saw and I had to TAKE MEASURES to recover it but I only got one injury worthy of the name while DOING TREES. I'll include that story as it might save someone from injury.

I was unloading a 15 ft or so tree top I had cut (pruned) from a friends tree. I was holding the little end of the delimbed piece of trunk and rolling it along the top of the side of my pickup bed. The plan was to get it to the drop off point and let go and let it hit the dirt. Everything went to plan BUT I got a little surprise that wasn't planned.

The big end hit first and the energy of the fall sent a wave motion up the limber log like a crack the whip sort of thing. As the wave went toward the little end the wave got bigger and bigger as the log got smaller. I expected the log to hit the ground and stay there but the little end whipped up to waist height and hit my right hand driving a stob into the hand between the thumb and forefinger. The speed of the tip of the limb was quite high and no human reflexes could have avoided it, you'd just have to be smart enough to step back as the log wouldn't jump end wise.

The hit opened up my hand at the web between the thumb and forefinger so you could look inside and see all the parts working like the SCIFI robot hands. The hole was big enough to pass silver dollars.

A soak in betadine, tetanus booster, and several stitches later and back home. Doc said the stick narrowly missed and only glanced across the important bits so he thought I would probably not loose much use of the hand. I didn't. The scar blends with the web and is not even noticible but the scar left on my brain will have me backing up anytime I drop something like that again. I was really mad at myself for not predicting and avoiding the problem.

It is one thing to take a calculated risk which you understand and have fall back plans but when you have something jump out and bite you unexpectedly it is an entirely different matter.

I hope you have a speedy and complete recovery AND never get attacked by another tree.

Pat