I might have a lessons learned situation

JC-jetro · Oct 18, 2009

I might be in a bit of a pickle and appreciate y'all's input.

I needed to clear some brush at my place to open up a few shooting lanes. The weeds were rampant here this year. Anyhow , that's how it goes. I don't on regular basis use my tractor so usually I take the negative lead to the battery off in case I have a low draw or amuse would be thief some. The battery I have is a Wally World 5 year battery. I don't have trickle charger for the battery. At times I had to jiggle the battery connection to get a stronger connection to start. Today there was no go as I attempted to start, the light on the dash came, the glow plug almost turned red but not enough juice to start. I got the jump cable and used my jeep to jump the stupid thing and it was not enough, I even let it charge up for 5 minutes and still no go. About that time my neighbor arrived and he said why don't you use the new CarQuest charger I recently bought, you can even start her with that too? The agreeable person I am and promptly said okay. I put it on start rather charging and with some reluctance the tractor started. I used the tractor for 1-1/2hrs moving his rake, cleared up my path and during this time never turned the tractor off. After I was done I came back and parked the tractor in the barn and turned it off. For the curiosity sake I tried to start one more time and no go again. The battery was totally dead. I started to take the battery off, by removing the leads and then for no good reason I directly connected the charger starter to my lead, light behind the dash came on okay I tried started for a vary quick split second andI saw a bit of smoke

Yikes

. and immediately turned the switch off.

Did I damage the starter somehow. I am absolutely positive that I did not reverse the polarity.

Now my question from y'all, my esteemed colleagues in tractoring is;

can you directly start an engine using this charger starter setup? Is polarity being checked by charger/starter or not?

I think may be with reverse polarity light would go on behind the dash but starter might have a major indigestion. I'm going to get a new battery as I have no doubt the battery is bad and will take new battery to test the thing out but it might be two weeks before I can go there. I think I'm done with my tractor for the winter so have not much urgency? I just hope I inadvertently did not toast my starter.

Thanks
JC,

Stonehaller · Oct 18, 2009

You should not connect a battery charger to a tractor or vehicle without a battery. The charger could apply too high of voltage. The charger needs the load of the battery to help it regulate voltage. Starters draw hundreds of amps to get the engine turning. You cannot get this much current out of a typical battery charger, even one with a start function.

Where did the smoke come from, the battery charger or the starter?

JFS2295 · Oct 18, 2009

As you probably know the battery sulfated from not being "exercised" every once in a while. Even a charger will help.

Rather then worrying about the starter, I'm going to say that the smoke came from some arcing between the clamp and starter terminal.

Batteries should be in the circuit as a dampener to some chargers non-pure DC voltage.

JC-jetro · Oct 18, 2009

Thanks guys for the replies,

The smoke was very little and appeared to come around the starter area. Not 100% sure. It all happened too quickly. You would think they design some resistor (same as load bank) to come along to give dampening if situation requires. I'll have to look at my wiring diagram but no fuse was blown as I checked them after the incident. I did touch starter solenoid and starter itself and they were barely warm. I only did it once and very briefly. I'll guess I'll find out as soon as I get a new battery and test it out. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

I hope that i don't have to give a post-mortem autopsy to my starter, and If I do, then there is additional learning opportunity.

JC,

jinman · Oct 19, 2009

JC, if you have dirty battery terminals, the tractor will not be able to charge the battery anymore than it would be able to use it for starting. The only way to see if the battery is good is to put it on a charger for several hours to slow charge it, and then check it for around 12.8 to 13 VDC with a voltmeter after disconnecting the charger. If it shows 13 VDC, you still need to check the specific gravity of each cell to spot one going bad.

I have one of those emergency batteries that does a wonderful job of starting my tractor when needed. It won't spin the engine as well as the normal battery, but it does well enough to crank it up if needed by just clamping it's clips onto the battery terminals with no battery installed. I would think one of those charged up and carried in your vehicle is a very good "insurance policy" for times like this. I use mine for everything from starting lawn tractors to being a backup for the battery in my dump trailer. I bought one for my wife that includes a small compressor. She's used it almost 10 times in 5 years for both a jumper and compressor. Well worth the money....

Like Jack, I don't think you fried your starter at all. I think that little bit of smoke probably came from the charger's alligator clips and drifted over around the starter. I also think you should leave the battery connected when using a charger, but I've seen lots of vehicles started with a 200 amp charger when the battery was kaput.

JC-jetro · Oct 19, 2009

Thanks Jim for the reply.

My battery connection and even to the starter did not show any sign of rust and dirtiness. I even smeared a bit of grease on the battery posts to keep oxidation to a minimum. After i got the tractor started with the bad battery on I checked the charging system and the voltage was right and the rectifier (diode) checked out okay, so I don't think I have a faulty charging system although I don't check battery light on the dash. During the winter in first year I took the battery home and slow charged it for couple of times and it did well. Last 3 years I have not done so, and the thing sitting outside in the cold of Kansas can't be good for it. The battery shows 12.8 volt but has no staying power and under load it fails. I think I have some warranty left in it. I take it to Walmart and I'm sure they test it under load and give me something else. Portable charger sounds good but I thought I had the jumper cable for that purpose. Frankly I need to study it a bit, on the portable chargers what type of battery they have, can they last long for occasional few times use in a year? what does it take to keep portable maintained? Nothing to maintain on cable and I though my jeep battery is always good because it get used all the time.

Thanks,
JC,

Egon · Oct 19, 2009

What causes car batteries to fail?

Some information on batteries for those interested.

ccsial · Oct 19, 2009

JC, If you don't use the tractor that often and it is not near a power outlet you may want to pull the battery and bring in in and keep it on a float charger. Smart thugs can't even reconnect it then.

I don't use my dump trailer but 2 or 3 times a year and I keep the battery in my shop on a float charger. The battery is 7 years old now and still working good.

I doubt the charger damaged your starter. If anything was damaged it would be the solenoid. If you put a high current charger on and have no battery don't turn on the lights. With a small load the charger will put out high voltage. The load the battery provides acts as a regulator.

JC-jetro · Oct 19, 2009

Thanks Egon for the link, it was pretty good.

Thanks CCsial for the suggestion. I do have power at the neighbors barn where my tractor is parked. I guess I'll get a trickle charger to keep the battery topped off during winter hibernation. During fall and summer I put sum total of 25-30 hrs on the tractor. I checked some of this charger/starter on line and on the better ones they do test for polarity and safeties so to minimize misuse. I down loaded PDF copy of owner's manual for one representative unit and it does say " not to connect the lead directly without battery present" and that's probably is the only "lessons learned". I have Friday off, so I might swing by and put a new charged up battery to see how she likes it.

You would think the positive lead to the starter should have a replaceable fusible link to disallow damaging the starter. I checked it with my service manual and it rates starter amp draw for Ford 1700 to 900 amps.

JC,

99SVT · Oct 19, 2009

to keep your battery in good condition, you should get one of the solar powered float chargers. Just keep it attached to the tractor battery while it is on the tractor... this will keep the battery healthy.