Ideas for constructing some kind of hand rails in this rock wall?q

[Oaktree]

Not as many steps as you have, but this is what I did a few years ago when I put these steps in. 4x4PT posts set as deep as I could get with a shovel, 3/4" black pipe rail.

 

[2manyrocks]

I like your stonework.

 

[Captain Dirty]

A few thoughts on handrails. There are mind-numbing details about proper handrail (and guardrail--you can look up the difference on an architectual website) construction. From the original photo your steps do not comply; nor do I believe they must. As your primary consideration seems to be safety, I will offer some observations I consider common sense.

Graspability is paramount. A 4" - 5.5" circumference or cross-section perimeter should be graspable for most people. Note that a 2x4 is too large, and although "pinch-grip" rails can meet code, such rails don't provide good graspability. Those accustomed to steep and perhaps dangerous stairs such as ship's ladders know that an underhand grip provides more control and easier arrest. This points toward 1-1/2" pipe rails that are readily available, aesthetically inoffensive, and relatively inexpensive.

The code load for a handrail is 200 lbs. I think a falling 200 lb person will likely exceed that force, and the lawyer for an injured visitor would argue that the presence of a any handrail implies at least code strength. ning suggested using the wooden posts to the right that you said presented problems. The distance to the right edge of the stair treads creates long lever arm to be resisted. A diagonal brace to vertically support the rail would be easy but shear forces in a horizontal plane are more problematic.

It looks like the solution involves posts along the left edge of the treads.

 

[ultrarunner]

At an old Lake House the posts are 1” driven rebar or drilled when driven not possible with a 1.5” top rail pipe curved with pipe bender and welded to attach…

At least 80+ years in place…

The builder was a CB from WWII who did air strip construction in WWII

 

[Captain Dirty]

Thoughts on handrail posts. Given that you stated the deck posts are 6x6, the typical maximum riser height is 8", and you have added intermediate stones to get to the 2nd and third risers, it appears that the rocks are 5-8" thick slabs of a probably quarried, native stone that has many, now horizontal, cleavage planes and roughly broken non-perpendicular edges. Perhaps "easily crumbled" is more generous than "rotten". I agree with grsthegreat that drilling might cause them to split (or fracture). With Murphy as your helper you would succeed in making most holes but then split or fracture the last stone. In New England granite the edge setback rule of thumb is 7x drill diameter for impact and at least 4-6" for diamond core drilling. Those setbacks may narrow your treads too much.
This seems to leave you with hand digging to ensure missing underground utilities. I live on a hill of glacial till, digging a post hole results in a grave by the time I get stones removed. If your burried rocks are large a big rotary hammer with 1+" bit will bore them. If your rocks are smaller or softer and you can drive a crowbar to make a pilot hole land then drive 1" square stock posts. While evenly spaced posts may look nicer, even spacing is not absolutely necessary. Good luck!

 

[ultrarunner]

Here is what National Park used at Half Dome…

 

[jymbee]

Thoughts on handrail posts. Given that you stated the deck posts are 6x6, the typical maximum riser height is 8", and you have added intermediate stones to get to the 2nd and third risers, it appears that the rocks are 5-8" thick slabs of a probably quarried, native stone that has many, now horizontal, cleavage planes and roughly broken non-perpendicular edges.

A bit of backstory:

Due to some geologic activity or other eons ago there's an amazing number of rocks just under the surface around here running the whole length of the valley. Many much larger than the ones shown here in my OP.

When I dug a 900' trench to install the underground utilities, I was using my Case 580 Construction King backhoe and well remember hooking on to one of these and discovering what I was trying to dig out was at least 6 feet long and over a foot thick.

When I had a local excavator dig out an area for the slab of the new garage, the rocks here were all dug out of that footprint! Made a nice wall at least.

Perhaps "easily crumbled" is more generous than "rotten". I agree with grsthegreat that drilling might cause them to split (or fracture). With Murphy as your helper you would succeed in making most holes but then split or fracture the last stone.

It's almost like you and Mr. Murphy have been looking over my shoulder with too many of my projects lately. But yes, "easily crumbled" is a good description as you can probably see in the above where even the largest rocks are apt to have multiple horizontal seams.

The intermediate stones you noted were just place there recently give me some ideas for what I eventually want to do, find the right size rocks to mortar in larger intermediate stones. I've got pallets full of rocks I've rescued from the stream bed on the property, many would likely work well for that purpose.

Taking into consideration all of the good input here (thanks all!) I'm now leaning toward doing something with the 6x6 supports along the side of the steps. Beyond my skill level but there's some pretty skilled welders around here that might be able to come up with ideas as to how to use them to anchor a railing.

 

[dicktill]

<snip>

Taking into consideration all of the good input here (thanks all!) I'm now leaning toward doing something with the 6x6 supports along the side of the steps. Beyond my skill level but there's some pretty skilled welders around here that might be able to come up with ideas as to how to use them to anchor a railing.

If that's the case, perhaps moving the steps closer to the 6x6's would make the whole job easier and more esthetic?

 

[jymbee]

If that's the case, perhaps moving the steps closer to the 6x6's would make the whole job easier and more esthetic?

Moving? Surely you jest!