Idle or Off

[MSU_Keith]

Just curious as to how others handle situations that require getting out of the seat for small periods of time. I am doing some grading work and find myself getting out to check grade against batter boards frequently, plus other activities that require getting off the tractor - pulling out roots and rocks, changing from blade to rake, or getting a cold beverage. When do you turn off vs leave at idle with brake on? 1-2 expected minutes is my usual rule but I'm being to think that longer idle times are better for the tractor than the on/off cycle.

 

[RoyJackson]

Maybe up to 5 minutes...except for warm up.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Ask yourself this, which is harder on a diesel, constantly starting and shutting down (read heating up and cooling down) or idling? The same goes for a car, it does much better driving on a highway then it does in stop and go traffic. If you are doing something that requires you to hop on and off numerous times leave it run unless you are going to be gone for an extended period of time. I think nothing of leaving my tractor idle for 10 minutes or so if I am working on something. The only time there is an exception is if you are doing something and there are kids around as it is hard to work and keep your eye on kids at the same time so shut down in case they decide to play around the tractor while you are not looking.

 

[beenthere]

In the total picture, I don't think it makes a difference. Theoretically, some minor differences may be identified.

I turn mine off when I don't want to listen to it run. I like to hear the birds chirp and the wind rustle through the trees. I take every opportunity to do that, and have the same feeling for radio noise. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Otherwise, one could come up with pros and cons for either 'side' of the discussion. Do what feels good to you.

 

[HGM]

I would recomend leaving it idle for the same reasons as above. It is also good to let the tractor idle for a few minutes after working it to allow it to cool down a bit before shutting it down.

 

[RoyJackson]

"Ask yourself this, which is harder on a diesel, constantly starting and shutting down (read heating up and cooling down) or idling? "

The Deere manuals do not recommend extended idling. The manual doesn't go into defining "extended idling" but it does state that sooting can happen.

When I idle my 790 (as mentioned above), it's normally at 1200-1500 RPM. I never idle below 1200 RPM.

 

[MSU_Keith]

Interesting info from the Deere manual - nothing in my manual either way (Kioti CK30). When I have idled, I usually bring the stick all the way down which is about 1000 RPM. The soot thing just might be a difference in how the engines are tuned at idle.

10 Minutes seams like a a long time, IMHO.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

That is true, I forgot to mention that in my post. I tend idle around the same range as you do. Another thing is to not go from full throttle to idle after working the motor hard. My 7710 has a feature that controls the idle to protect the engine. It idles it around 1200 rpms then drops it down to low idle. When it goes to low idle then I shut her down.

 

[DKinWA]

I can't think of any reason to leave it running unless it's to cool down after running at pto speed for awhile. Even then, I only let if run for a couple of minutes. Like someone else said, I get tired of the noise and usually want a break from it.

 

[Soundguy]

I let mine run if it will be needed within 10 minutes.. course. i let it set at about 1000 rpm or so.

That's prety much status quo for heavy equipment that contractors use too. Startt he equipment up at the beginning of the day.. shut down at lunch..maybee... then shut down at the end of the day..

I imagine 'starting' is one of the harder tasks on a machine..

Soundguy

 

[jgh]

20050911

In case someone is interested, here is what my Ford Truck dealer told me about my 2005 F-350 diesel: Don't do extended idle (not exactly defined but more than a few minutes) due to new engine equipment (the exhaust DOES smell different on this truck) that will let soot, etc, build up during extended no-load idling. Service writer even said to limit warm-up and do more like we do with gas engines--warm up under at least some load, mostly.

I wonder what a careful reading (and who does that?) of newer tractor manuals says about same? Engine technology is different now, Tier thisthatandtheother, etc. Deere seems to address it, one person said theirs does not (how old?). Anyone else with a new tractor see anything. I'll look at my Bobcat manuals, both are 2004 models.

And with the new "fuel factor", how much does your starter cost /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif?

Jim
Mt Burgha on the Rivanna in Va

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Trucks do not have a manual throttle so if you take your foot of the pedal the truck goes to low idle which is not healthy. This is why we say to idle around 1000-1200 rpms on a tractor because you can set the throttle anywhere. It is a fast idle to help keep the engine from building up soot and such.

 

[HGM]

You truck has an EGR valve, the EGR cooler can remove 700deg from the exhaust gas. If it is idleing, its sucking in cool air to begin with, add the cool exhaust gas and with todays fuel, you will have a sooting concern. This will cause sticking EGR's and turbo vanes for your truck. The dealer is right, dont idle your truck.

As for the tractors, idle for my Yanmar is about 1100-1200, depending on where you put the stick. I agree a low idle would be bad, just listen to it knock at idle(some are worse than others). A 1100rpm idle is not bad, it helps cool the engine and maintain lube pressure. Diesel generators run 24/7, rpm varies on load.

 

[flusher]

I'm a newbie to CUTs with a whoopin' 18 hours so far on my B7510HST/LA302 FEL that I got last June.

The Kubota manual has a "yellow page" section (10 pages or so) on operating safety. You know what it says: don't leave the seat without putting the gears in neutral, setting the parking brake, shutting off the engine, and putting the key in your pocket.

I assume this warning/advice is an OSHA-related requirement and may be required by Kubota's insurance carrier.

IIRC, Kubota does recommend dropping the rpm to idle before shutting the engine down. Safety apparently trumps any concerns about wear or soot problems from stopping/starting engine according to Kubota.

My gut-feeling is that many (nearly all?) experienced CUT owners ignore this procedure 100% of the time and hop off the running tractor when necessary, probably after lowering the rpm to idle (1000-1200 rpm). If it's a gear-type tractor, the tranny is in neutral and (maybe) the parking brake is set. This is my guess since I've only owned an HST-type.

I'll admit that on several occasions on level ground or in the concrete-floored garage I've gotten off the seat with the engine at idle, in low gear and no parking brake. I rationalize this violation of "best/safe practice" with the "is starting/stopping the engine going to do some kind of damage".

I do this, but I'm not entirely comfortable doing this.

Hmmm, cost of (possible) engine repairs vs. possible injury from an (apparently) unsafe practice. This should be a no-brainer.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

To protect themselves they have to tell people to shut the tractor down but to follow proper shut down procedures. If they told people to just lower the idle and hop off and someone got hurt they would be in court the next day.

I would think a smaller cut would have more wear on the engine then a larger farm tractor because the cut will get used for a short time then shut down, start back up and shut down. Where as a larger tractor will be run for a longer period of time before shutdown and parked for the night.

 

[anojones]

I'm new to tractors as well- and have a JD3320 with the e-hydro. Maybe I'm wrong, but on level ground, when getting on and off the running tractor to do whatever it seems safer to leave it in gear on a hydro. In neutral (without the brake) it seems more likely to roll- and the 3320 has a safety- someone must be in the seat in order for the tractor to move when the hydro pedal is depressed. I generally leave the thing in gear and when parked just drop the loader and 3PH/implement- on level ground it's not going anywhere.

 

[jgh]

20050911

That reminds me--my first diesel was a Mercedes 300D, 1975, with the then new 5 cyl engine. It indeed had a manual throttle. I cannot recall how use of that was covered in the owners manual, but I used it to smooth out the engine vibrations, etc. Sounds like such a throttle would be a good idea on modern diesel powered vehicles.

Got a Bobcat warming now at about 1100 RPM.

J
Mt Burgha on the Rivanna in VA

 

[Boomerang1]

Before electronic controlled engines, all big trucks had a manual idol control knob. You pulled it out and then turned it for fine adjustment. It was just a cable that was hooked to the throttle linkage. Some drivers would use it for cruise control! Very dangerous. Now, with electronic cruise, you just hit the resume switch and the idol will go to a preset speed of around 900 rpm. If you hold down the switch, you can go anywhere from low idol up to rated rpm in case you need to run an air pump or something. You can also set the base rpm with the switch also.

 

[kennyd]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Before electronic controlled engines, all big trucks had a manual idol control knob. You pulled it out and then turned it for fine adjustment. It was just a cable that was hooked to the throttle linkage. Some drivers would use it for cruise control! Very dangerous. )</font>

The old International Cab-over that my Father used to drive had a rod that went down along side of the steering column, to over the accelerator pedal, you could push the rod down and lock it in place with a thumbscrew. It was used for fast idle, NEVER cruise control /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[RalphVa]

If I'm on a slope, I set parking brake and put HST selector in Low and shut off engine first. It's safer than being run over by an idling tractor whose parking brake doesn't hold, or you forgot to set.

If it's on a fairly flat surface and don't need much time to do something, I'll leave it running with parking brake set.

Read somewhere where a diesel uses less fuel sitting and idling for a fairly long period vs. using engine power through the alternator to recharge battery for restarts. Whereas, on a gas engine, you'll use less fuel if you shut it off even for brief periods, even at stop lights if you know it has just changed and can easily see a yellow light on the signal to restart before some impatient so and so honks at you. I've been in cabs in other countries where fuel has been high like ours is now long ago. They'd shut off the engines at stop lights.

As far as sooting up, I think you get more soot by shutting down and letting it cool rather than letting it run.

As far as following the manual's advice to remove and pocket the key, I don't follow this. Don't normally have any pockets to put the key into. Some lawyer who doesn't own a tractor and who has never missplaced keys wrote this into them.

Ralph