If only I'd have known.....

[45er]

I guess I'd just like to vent with you folks a little, and also ask if all tractor manufacturers are like NH in that they design their tractors such that you have to buy different wheels for turf and ag tires? I bought my first (and only) tractor used a few years ago (a NH 1925) and it had turf tires on it. While they worked ok, I decided that ag tires would increase the tractor's efficiency. When I went to buy some ag tires, I learned that I couldn't just buy the tires, but had to buy all new wheels too because the ag tires would not fit on the wheels that I had for the turf tires! Can anyone suggest to me that this is anything besides a marketing ploy to sell more tires/wheels? Is there a real technical reason that this has to be the case? I bet not. This sure chaps me off and I was wondering if all the other manufactures of these compact tractors do the same thing? 45er

 

[jwstewar]

I believe that holds true for pretty all brands of tractors. The tires are usually meant for different purposes. The turfs are usually wider and you want more side wall so there is more give where as the ags are usually narrower and less sidewall so they are a little stiffer. There to accomplish these tasks, you need different size wheels.

 

[firemanpat2910]

I dont beleive that NH or any other brand makes the tires. you cant blame chevy when you cant mount the stock tires on your 22" spinners, so you cant blame NH when you choose to change the aspect ratio of the tires and they wont fit on the stock rims. What about R4s, do they make any that will fit your rims?

 

[Tazz]

I decided that ag tires would increase the tractor's efficiency. 45er

Just curious here, What do you expect to gain with the new tire? Are the turf tires slipping on hills or wet grass? My TC29D has the R4 tires and often thought about turf tires and if there was a difference. My area is pretty flat and most grass and trees.

 

[Doc_Bob]

I Can anyone suggest to me that this is anything besides a marketing ploy to sell more tires/wheels? Is there a real technical reason that this has to be the case? I bet not. This sure chaps me off and I was wondering if all the other manufactures of these compact tractors do the same thing? 45er

Not a marketing ploy. Annoying yes, ploy no. All tractor makers do the same thing.
Bob

 

[AndyMA]

Just curious here, What do you expect to gain with the new tire? Are the turf tires slipping on hills or wet grass? My TC29D has the R4 tires and often thought about turf tires and if there was a difference. My area is pretty flat and most grass and trees.

I had turf tires on one tractor about 20 years ago. Major reason I got rid of tractor, I didn't mow and they were just about useless for anything else. If I were to mow I'd use Galaxy Turfs like golf courses do. The rounded edges tear up the lawns much less than standard turf tires square edges.

Turfs, R4's and R1's all require different rims due to different widths and profiles. Fact of nature.

I now run R1's on all my machines so that I get some bite.

 

[390GT]

Sorry did'nt intened to hijack your post BUT, curious about the ratio of the front to rear tire size on a 4X4 CUT. 4X4 trucks have same size at the four corners CUT's don't. Is maintaining the correct ratio important and if so do all manufacturers use the same ratio. Again sorry for the hijack. Greg

 

[45er]

Good point made about the tire manufacturers. I guess I shouldn't be on NH's case as they don't make tires/wheels. So far the turf tires have worked on my 35 acres because I have no rocks and not many stumps, but the soil is very sandy and when I try to pull my disc harrow or even tow logs out of the way, the turf tires slip a lot. 4WD is needed way more than it should be. I guess I will bite the bullet and buy a set of Ag tires for the tractor. Oh well, it's only money as they say. 45er

 

[Doc_Bob]

4WD is needed way more than it should be. I guess I will bite the bullet and buy a set of Ag tires for the tractor. Oh well, it's only money as they say. 45er

I went with AG tires. My tractor never sees any lawn. I rarely use 4WD. 2WD with R1 seem to work fine. I save 4WD when I am stuck or nearly stuck in 2WD. AG tires would eat up my lawn.
Bob

 

[sandman2234]

Once you bite the bullet and spend the money on the tires AND RIMS, you will be able to switch back and forth alot easier than if you had the option of using turf tires on Ag rims. It is a lot of extra money, but you are gaining that at the same time.
Another way of looking at it, is if you run over something on Friday afternoon and tear up a tire, when you have a full weekend of work ahead of you, you can just put the other tires and rims on, and let the tire guy fix the problem on Monday, instead of having to pay him overtime or after hours service call.
Just thinking about the whole picture, instead of the costs of getting started with an extra set of tires.
David from jax

 

[Soundguy]

Are you for real?

Just looking at turf tires.. compaired to ag tires and it should be plainly obvious that there will be rim differences. Do you think NH has tires made specifically for their tractors.. that don't fit any other tractors? Now that would be expensive.. and that's what would have to happen to have the situation you describe.

You either buy tires that firt your rims.. or you buy rims that fit the tires you want.

I fthis is a 4wd machine.. you have to be carefull and get the same rolling circumference ratio between front and rear tires when you get new tires / rims...

If this kind of 'issue' 'chaps' you.. then I suggest you set down and get your doctor to prescribe some sedatives that you can keep on hand as you continue to use your tractor... you will find many issues that are agravating. though common... no matter who makes your tractor.

Soundguy

Soundguy

I guess I'd just like to vent with you folks a little, and also ask if all tractor manufacturers are like NH in that they design their tractors such that you have to buy different wheels for turf and ag tires? I bought my first (and only) tractor used a few years ago (a NH 1925) and it had turf tires on it. While they worked ok, I decided that ag tires would increase the tractor's efficiency. When I went to buy some ag tires, I learned that I couldn't just buy the tires, but had to buy all new wheels too because the ag tires would not fit on the wheels that I had for the turf tires! Can anyone suggest to me that this is anything besides a marketing ploy to sell more tires/wheels? Is there a real technical reason that this has to be the case? I bet not. This sure chaps me off and I was wondering if all the other manufactures of these compact tractors do the same thing? 45er

 

[Keith_B]

R1, R4 and turf tires all have different ratios of height to width, and because of this they will all use different rims on a 4wd tractor. I've seen some older Fords (8N, 600, etc) with turf tires on the R1 Ag rims and these tires are so narrow that they would have little of the flotation characteristics that people look for in a turf tire. The kind of look like a big bicycle tire, narrow with very little tread.

 

[Soundguy]

And add to that that many sizes of tire can be squeezed on a rim.. For instance.. that 8n common rim can safely hold at least 3 differnent tire sizes before the rim just becomes to narrow.

Makes ya really scratch your head when picking out tires!!

Add to that is the cost of rubber. i had to repalce a 16.9x24 diamond tread turf tire on my NAA.. I about passed out when I found the tire was 500$!! he asked me If I wanted 2 of them to be a perfect match.. i said no.. just underinflate the new one a tad, and add a couple pounds to the old one so they are about the same profile!!

Soundguy

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Sorry did'nt intened to hijack your post BUT, curious about the ratio of the front to rear tire size on a 4X4 CUT. 4X4 trucks have same size at the four corners CUT's don't. Is maintaining the correct ratio important and if so do all manufacturers use the same ratio. Again sorry for the hijack. Greg

It's probably important, but I doubt it is as critically important as in a truck, at least if the trucks are still made the same way as my '87 Dodge. There is no differential in the front wheels when the truck is in 4 wheel drive. Also, I believe all trucks have a built-in small difference in the speed the front and rear wheels spin (there is a name for it, but I disremember what it is), thus, at least in my old truck, it's important that you have the same size tires and that you do not put it in 4 wheel drive under ideal driving conditions on a paved road. There has to be slippage available for the four wheel drive to work properly. I found out the first time I ever put my CUT in 4 wheel drive that it has differential in both front and rear unless you lock the differential. Why they don't have a differential lock on trucks, I don't know. I know you can get posi or whatever the brand equivalent is in a truck, but why not a manual locking differential like the tractor?

I can't see that there could be much margin for fooling around in any case. Heck, they won't even put 2 snow tires on a regular passenger car anymore. If you have front wheel drive, you gotta buy a complete set of four.

 

[MiserableOldFart]

Sorry, I forgot to finish my post. I don't think you can "buy tires that fit the rims" in a 4x4 tractor because the height of the tires makes a huge difference in the ratio. So you do have to buy a complete set of rims and tires matched for that particular tractor, no? Or, of course, you can replace your original tires with tires of the exact same size (height and rim), though you might be able to play with the width, you can probably also cause problems with clearances if you go wider and with overall width (and thus balance) of the machine if you go narrower. I have read the galaxy tires can hit FEL's on some tractors.

To take a simple example, if you had 18 inch rims and six inch high tires on the rear, that would be a total of 30 inches. If the same tractor had 12 inch rims and 4 inch high tires on the front that would make the ratio of the circumferences 2/3. If you replaced the tires with other heights, either in the front or back, it would probably be impossible to find tires for the other two wheels to duplicate that ratio. If you went out and bought a set of rims and tires of another type for that tractor, and measured them, the ratio would have to be pretty darn close to that 2/3 to be safe, and I'm sure they will be. This is a pretty simplistic analysis too because the actual diameter would be dependent upon how much the tire flexed or flattened at the bottom. Turf tires are designed to flatten out quite a bit at the bottom and this reduces the diameter, and changes the ratio as well. So, even if armed with the ratios involved, putting any combination that is not specifically designed for that tractor (or more accurately, that the tractor is specifically designed for) would probably take an engineering degree to do properly.

Or not.. I don't know..

 

[whitetiger]

Tractors use a 3% to 5% lead factor for the front axle. These tractors are not really 4x4, rather FWA (front wheel asist). Any comparison between them and a pickup is really a mute issue.
There are severial front to rear tire size combinations that would work just fine, problem is CNH only offers certain rim sizes. Could you just imagine the headache of half a dozen rim sizes?????

 

[Soundguy]

It's the ratio that is important.. not the actual tire size per se.. however as the previous poster refered to.. there are very few rims available for most tractors..

Soundguy

Sorry, I forgot to finish my post. I don't think you can "buy tires that fit the rims" in a 4x4 tractor because the height of the tires makes a huge difference in the ratio. So you do have to buy a complete set of rims and tires matched for that particular tractor, no? Or, of course, you can replace your original tires with tires of the exact same size (height and rim), though you might be able to play with the width, you can probably also cause problems with clearances if you go wider and with overall width (and thus balance) of the machine if you go narrower. I have read the galaxy tires can hit FEL's on some tractors.

To take a simple example, if you had 18 inch rims and six inch high tires on the rear, that would be a total of 30 inches. If the same tractor had 12 inch rims and 4 inch high tires on the front that would make the ratio of the circumferences 2/3. If you replaced the tires with other heights, either in the front or back, it would probably be impossible to find tires for the other two wheels to duplicate that ratio. If you went out and bought a set of rims and tires of another type for that tractor, and measured them, the ratio would have to be pretty darn close to that 2/3 to be safe, and I'm sure they will be. This is a pretty simplistic analysis too because the actual diameter would be dependent upon how much the tire flexed or flattened at the bottom. Turf tires are designed to flatten out quite a bit at the bottom and this reduces the diameter, and changes the ratio as well. So, even if armed with the ratios involved, putting any combination that is not specifically designed for that tractor (or more accurately, that the tractor is specifically designed for) would probably take an engineering degree to do properly.

Or not.. I don't know..

 

[billfires]

45er, I have the same issue with a 1920. The turf tires were loaded (must be for liability reasons) and I only had 5-6 inches of clearance under the subframe bracket. I priced a set of R1 tires for it and lost my breath when they told me $2500.00. I had the tires unloaded and gained an additional 2 inches of clearance. Trying to find used rims is next to impossible in Mass. The other option was that Firestone makes an R1 tread in the same size as the turf tires (really wouldn't help me as I was looking for the additional 7 inches of diameter that the R1 or R4 tires would provide). Bill C

 

[firemanpat2910]

I must be missing something how did you get 2" of clearance by "unloading the tires? Inflated is inflated be it water or air .....right?

 

[Soundguy]

Sank into the ground from weight? ( grasping at straws? )

Tires not properly inflated when loaded.. and thus were squatting.. perhaps on purpos for extra traction? ( more grasping )

Soundguy