If you are thinking about buying a gray market tractor

[YanmarFever]

If it were our dealership,

you wood have your $$ back in your hand (or)

We would of apologized to you and gave you a different tractor.

There is no excuse, I would return it to them today


my .02

 

[Tom_Veatch]

... Have no clue as to how much impact altitude has, but suspect it has some. What is the reduction of oxygen at 8600' versus 1000'? ...

Standard Atmospheric Pressure at 8600' is 10.67 psi (21.7 inHg) vs 14.2 psi (28.86 inHg) at 1000' (Ref: 1976 Standard Atmosphere Tables).

So the manifold pressure is reduced about 25% going from 1000' to 8600'. The partial pressure of oxygen at 8600' should be about the same as sea level, so the amount of oxygen in the cylinder would be reduced about the same percentage as the pressure, 25%.

[edit] The "percentage composition" of oxygen should be about the same at 8500' as 1000'. The "partial pressure" of oxygen will be reduced about the same percentage as the overall atmospheric pressure. Sorry about that.[/edit]

The reduced pressure/mass of air in the cylinder at the beginning of the compression stroke would result in a lower temperature of the compressed air at the point of fuel injection. Haven't run any numbers to see if the theoretical reduction is significant WRT ignition point of the fuel, but don't believe it would be enough to prevent ignition. I'm sure there are plenty of normally aspirated diesel engines operating at that altitude.

Wonder if there's any significant difference in the starting problem of Mech's machine between a cold start and a restart of a warm/hot engine.

 

[Mech]

I think I remember the tractor starting easily and w/o the TS when it is warm, but I need to check this weekend. I don't usually restart it once I get it started. I don't know much about injector pumps but wonder if there is a way to adjust fuel timing relative to the compression stroke and if that needs to be adjusted with altitude. I will check the air and fuel filters this weekend but they both looked clean when I got the tractor. I didn't start to worry about the starting until it got into the 60's and it was still not starting w/o the TS.

Thanks everyone for their help.

 

[kenmac]

I read you the 1st part of your post. I'am not trying to be a smart a#### or comming down on you or anything like that (so don't take it that way) but, it has been said here time & time again to check out who you are buying from b -4 you buy , know what the warranty specifics are b- 4 you buy. Not after you buy .I don't know if you were told that you would have to pay for your tractor to be shipped back & forth or not . But, if you had bought a new or used vehicle you would have to have it towed back to a dealer for repairs. I know some of my friends that have bought new tractors & when they break they have to haul them to the shop (still under warranty) for repairs.I hope all goes well for you & you get everything straightened out.you had too many problems with tractor to start with . I would have never taken the tractor but, I wouldn't have bought from him/her with out checking him/her out.

 

[mark777]

I guess bad compression is what I feared most. I just ordered a injector puller and compression tester so I will know for sure in about a week.

Mech, If you have to use the TS in 40° or warmer weather something is wrong. Even crunching TomV's numbers should only slightly change the duration the engine must spin to ignite the fuel. And I understand a simple dose of Cetane booster at higher altitudes adjusts for ambient temperature and minimal loss of oxygen during initial start up. I have friends at Sierra ville, CA at high altitude that swear there is little difference during start up and performance with exception to some late model turbo-diesel tractors.

What I think is happening to you? Your flooding fuel past the combustion chamber (using TS) into the cylinders and compensating for either cylinder wall or ring wear. Your diesel fuel is literally lining the rings and cylinder walls creating enough compression for the engine to eventually fire. To be absolutely sure...run a Dry AND Wet test when you get your compression tester.

I would have a very long talk with my dealer and find out just how good he really is. I'm guessing you're right at 3 months of ownership and hopefully you can work something out...Best scenario - returning this tractor and getting the one you paid for. Good luck.

Mark

 

[Mech]

Thanks everyone for their replies. I will probably be able to do the compression test the 7th or 8th of April and will let everyone know the results and go from there. In hindsight I obviously didn't check the dealer out well enough and shouldn't have taken delivery of the tractor.

 

[smokiediesel]

Thanks everyone for their replies. I will probably be able to do the compression test the 7th or 8th of April and will let everyone know the results and go from there. In hindsight I obviously didn't check the dealer out well enough and shouldn't have taken delivery of the tractor.

Sir,

I would estimate, that at your alt level, with current fuel and air setup, you may need to either increase timing to your feulpump or increasefast idel for the tractor to start. This is myestimatation. I live at near sealevel but travel to folks at 3-4000k. when i do, my poor old diesel yaks to start but gets agoing. Ithink your compression test will show something, but seek more informations about increasing timing on the fp of these diesels. I'fe done a bit of readying the last few weeks and it seems that increasing time on these is not trivial, done with shims and such and can relate to very time consuming project.

Frurthermore, have you checked all usuals? Like: fuel pressure good, clean filtration, is thermostart working, air way intake clear, so on.

Good luck and letsusknow.
-smokiediesel (dave)

 

[Mech]

TS is working after I replaced the unit. Since it was replaced it has always started easily with the TS. A few more pieces of info while I wait on the compression tester:

When running the motor has very little blowby from the valve cover.

Took off the air intake and still started hard.

Poured a few ounces of tranny fluid in intake, ran with compression release for a few seconds and still started hard

At a little over 60 deg outside temp, started w/o TS but had to turn over for 20+ seconds. After running for 20-30 seconds starts easily.

Calculated the compression for this altitude and...

At 1000 ft should be between 639psi and 568psi, 426 is considered as low as it should go. It says anything below 426 will be hard to start and is in need of overhaul.

If I did the math right at 8500 ft should be between 485 and 431 (3.6% per 1000 feet)

So the low end of the expected compression at this altitude is very close to what is hard starting at 1000 ft.

So I'm thinking that I either have a valve (leaking or out of adjustment) or a ring problem and at this altitude it doesn't have to be very bad to cause hard starting.

 

[mark777]

- When I got my tractor it wouldn’t start .......
- My hydraulics wouldn’t work........
- The tractor was missing some brackets, under the steps and for the
draw bar, that the dealer didn’t feel were essential ..........
- My steering had 10+ inches of play, wouldn’t adjust anymore, ....
... I overhauled the steering box and it is... (approx $200).....
- One of the 3 point pins came out and the threads were shot.....
- Things like a mirror, horn, hood latches (My tractor only had one and a
clear plastic piece over the hole where the left one would have gone),
missing and loose bolts, fuse cover, PTO shield, clutch interlock,
grommets on dash, tire valve caps, my dealer and probably your dealer,
may not consider part of the package.
- I was shipped a different tractor than I was sent pictures of....
- .... did not have new hoses or belts ....that had all been promised
.....I have put in the proper fuses... replaced the light ...fix a FEL oil leak,
properly adjusted the clutch and belt, In the future I need to fix a
leaking seal in the transmission .........QUOTE]

Mech, Unless you paid a very low price for an "AS IS" Tractor and all of these problems were disclosed before you took delivery then you've been HAD. I can't think of anyway to say it more delicately. I have to believe that other members (and surely dealers) are thinking the same.

From what I've read on this, and a few other forums, learned and personally witnessed, Your buying experience and new ownership may be one of the worst I'm aware of. And when I say personally witnessed, I mean I've had a few calls in the past, went and tried to help someone who purchased a bad tractor (Yanmar) lost the ongoing battle with a particular dealer and asked my opinion of what's wrong (and how much to fix it).

Your dealer has your money, will wait out the warranty period and eventually leave you to fix all the problems that shouldn't have been there in the first place. There is nothing typical about the thread you've started in relation to a good used Yanmar. It IS typical of the small minority of shysters who are delivering crap, taking the money and leaving you to fend for yourself. These are the very same dealers that ruin the dependability factor associated with good used tractors, and dealers that would never allow a tractor to be delivered with ANY of the above problems.

It's way past suggesting checking out a dealer, asking for references or scolding you for not doing so...There are many here that will help if we can.

Mark

 

[phatgemi]

- When I got my tractor it wouldn’t start .......
- My hydraulics wouldn’t work........
- The tractor was missing some brackets, under the steps and for the
draw bar, that the dealer didn’t feel were essential ..........
- My steering had 10+ inches of play, wouldn’t adjust anymore, ....
... I overhauled the steering box and it is... (approx $200).....
- One of the 3 point pins came out and the threads were shot.....
- Things like a mirror, horn, hood latches (My tractor only had one and a
clear plastic piece over the hole where the left one would have gone),
missing and loose bolts, fuse cover, PTO shield, clutch interlock,
grommets on dash, tire valve caps, my dealer and probably your dealer,
may not consider part of the package.
- I was shipped a different tractor than I was sent pictures of....
- .... did not have new hoses or belts ....that had all been promised
.....I have put in the proper fuses... replaced the light ...fix a FEL oil leak,
properly adjusted the clutch and belt, In the future I need to fix a
leaking seal in the transmission .........QUOTE]

Mech, Unless you paid a very low price for an "AS IS" Tractor and all of these problems were disclosed before you took delivery then you've been HAD. I can't think of anyway to say it more delicately. I have to believe that other members (and surely dealers) are thinking the same.

From what I've read on this, and a few other forums, learned and personally witnessed, Your buying experience and new ownership may be one of the worst I'm aware of. And when I say personally witnessed, I mean I've had a few calls in the past, went and tried to help someone who purchased a bad tractor (Yanmar) lost the ongoing battle with a particular dealer and asked my opinion of what's wrong (and how much to fix it).

Your dealer has your money, will wait out the warranty period and eventually leave you to fix all the problems that shouldn't have been there in the first place. There is nothing typical about the thread you've started in relation to a good used Yanmar. It IS typical of the small minority of shysters who are delivering crap, taking the money and leaving you to fend for yourself. These are the very same dealers that ruin the dependability factor associated with good used tractors, and dealers that would never allow a tractor to be delivered with ANY of the above problems.

It's way past suggesting checking out a dealer, asking for references or scolding you for not doing so...There are many here that will help if we can.

Mark

Well put! Not only would I be taking that tractor back, I probably would be delivering it myself. Sounds like a classis bait and switch! Just the fact that you got a different tractor is reason enough to flush this dealer!