Ignition Problem Ford 1710

[oldford1710]

Hello,

I'm kind of new to my old tractor and started having an ignition problem today.

At problem start glow looked to be working but all that happened when attempt to start was a solenoid click. Assumed bad battery and jumped it with same result. Swapped out the battery with same result plus now started intermitently having no lights for glow or ignition on.

Now no indiction of juice with key on - no lights, horn, solenoid click.

Checked battery and its at 12.6 volts. Now it gets strange.

Pulled of wire from positive terminal on the solenoid and have 12.6 volts there, but when I put it the wire back on the solenoid says 0.1 volts. This may be a red herring with bad contact, but I have had it off and on several times with same result.

During one of my removals of large wires from solenoid, I hit something and the engine tried to turn over - but I can't recreate this. We had previously tried to jump accross solenoid with no luck.

Not sure why, but I have some suspicion its the ignition key or the wiring from the key to the solenoid/starter.

Anybody seen anything like this. Is there a way to bypass the ignition switch to test when I pull it out?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Wolfy]

Nice to see a fellow 1710 owner.....Have you traced the wires from the ignition switch to see if they are in good shape?

 

[Wolfy]

You should be able to connect the wires from the ignition switch together, and the tractor should start.

 

[randy41]

i sometimes have a poor negative battery side to ground wire that i replace and it solves the problem. i would also check the connections on the key switch to see that there are no loose wires. if you have an ohm meter you can check the continuity of the wiring. these are the steps i start with. the key switch is annoying to work with because i think the voltage regulator is right behind it.
i also recently replaced the starter and it was doing something like what you describe, i turned the key and it clicked but no action beyond that.

 

[Wolfy]

Good steps from Randy. Everything is clustered behind the dash.:confused2:

 

[oldford1710]

Thanks for the quick reply. The wires to the ignition aren't really in great shape, but they are pretty easy to trace. I saw that some disassembly was required to get at the ignition switch.

I'm wondering if I am discounting the ground idea for no good reason. I'm measuring the battery from the neg post and get the same reading if I hit positive and ground to the frame, so I didn't pull the battery wire that goes to the frame (ground) off.

The other thing that is suspect is the wire (braided cable) that is also attached to the pos input on the solenoid and goes into the starter.

I need to dig up my wiring diagram.

I guess my take is that with a bad starter or bad solenoid the lights should come on. But, maybe not since the main juice seems to be hitting the post on the solenoid and then going through the solenoid or starter somehow for continuation of the circuit.

 

[Wolfy]

I suspect either its the starter solenoid or the ignition switch, which also would run the lights. If you jump the starter with a screwdriver, I think that could tell you if the solenoid is any good.

 

[oldford1710]

Jumping the solenoid did not work. You thinking solenoid? Shouldn't the headlights etc work if the ignition switch is on, even with a bad solenoid?

 

[randy41]

take the starter leg off the solenoid and apply 12v to the starter and see if it turns at all.
another thing that can cause a problem is the transmission safety switch....this requires that the tractor is out of gear for the ignition to work.
when you turn the key to the first position do the 2 red lights come on on the tach?
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-holland-owning-operating/208022-1710-starter-dead.html
you should read through the thread i linked to.

 

[oldford1710]

When the problem started, I got the 2 red lights and headlights, and a solenoid click and nothing else.

Then the lights and click became intermittant and now nothing happens at all lights or happens when I turn the key.

This all happened in the period of 10 or 20 tries while attempting to jump it and then swapped out the battery with one that starts a pickup fine.

Is the starter test jumping across the solenoid? Tried that with no luck. I'm not sure I understand the procedure.

Thanks for the link to your thread. It will help. I read through it quickly and will go back and reread.

 

[oldford1710]

After checking the other thread I found a very interesting photo of a starter / solenoid posted at

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-holland-owning-operating/208022-1710-starter-dead.html

Mine which WAS working (acquired used a couple years ago) seems to be wired wierd. I'm assuming the heavy red wire in the photo is positive to the battery. On mine the positive from the battery is on the same terminal as the heavy braided wire that enters the starter.

The picture makes sense, my layout does not.

 

[rayikeo2]

I just started reading this post so I am not sure what all you have done except for the new battery and some tests. My question, have you taken the negative cable off from the battery and also from the tractor frame and replaced the cable with a new one? With all the things not working on your tractor it sounds like a major lack of ground connection.

 

[rayikeo2]

After checking the other thread I found a very interesting photo of a starter / solenoid posted at

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/new-holland-owning-operating/208022-1710-starter-dead.html

Mine which WAS working (acquired used a couple years ago) seems to be wired wierd. I'm assuming the heavy red wire in the photo is positive to the battery. On mine the positive from the battery is on the same terminal as the heavy braided wire that enters the starter.

The picture makes sense, my layout does not.

This could be leading to your problem. Sounds like the starter cylinder solinoid has been by-passed on your tractor. I am not sure what all problems this might cause. We need for a tractor mechanic's opinion here, which I am not. :confused2: I am surprised it has been working that way for 2 years.

 

[oldford1710]

Hi Ray,

I will check the ground, but I am getting 12.6 volts at the end of the positive to the solenoid grounded to the center of the battery terminal so I have not pursued this too far. I get the same 12.6 when I ground to the frame directly.

The guy that owned the place that came with the tractor had some interesting ways of working around problems, shall we say, so nothing really surprises me other than this ever worked.

I will see if I get any more input, but my next plan is to wire it correctly and then see if it does anything.

 

[JC-jetro]

Hi Ray,

I will check the ground, but I am getting 12.6 volts at the end of the positive to the solenoid grounded to the center of the battery terminal so I have not pursued this too far. I get the same 12.6 when I ground to the frame directly.

The guy that owned the place that came with the tractor had some interesting ways of working around problems, shall we say, so nothing really surprises me other than this ever worked.

I will see if I get any more input, but my next plan is to wire it correctly and then see if it does anything.

Good morning,

I got your pm. The pic you're talking about is my 1700. I'm not 100% sure if the starter on your 1710 is identical to my 1700. if the previous owner took the red cable and directly connected to the braided wire causes the solenoid to be completely bypassed why, I don't know. I wonderd if the solenoid still works. by connecting it like that he always has the starter energized but why.. nobody does that. When the solenoid is made it ends up doing two things, first pushes the gear of the starter to mesh with flywheel and then internally connects the the red cable to braided cable to start turning of the starter. You can independently check the solenoid have, you jumped positive from battery to the solenoid terminal? what was the result?

I'm just reaching here.. is there any possibility he rigged it up that that the the starter gear constantly meshes with the flywheel?? although it is totally bizarre.:confused2: and if so how he turns the starter off? is he manually starts the tractor just by jumping the red cable to battery terminal bypassing the clutch safety?

can you manually turn the starter? do you have any pics?

JC,

 

[oldford1710]

Put the solenoid wires on properly, but still get no volts at the ignition. It looks on the wiring diagram that power to the key switch is through a red wire from the alternator and through a fusible link (also red) from the battery to the red wire from alternator. No voltage on the red wire at the ignition switch. Can anyone tell me what a fusible link looks like or have a photo?

 

[JC-jetro]

Put the solenoid wires on properly, but still get no volts at the ignition. It looks on the wiring diagram that power to the key switch is through a red wire from the alternator and through a fusible link (also red) from the battery to the red wire from alternator. No voltage on the red wire at the ignition switch. Can anyone tell me what a fusible link looks like or have a photo?

Did yo read my post? the red cable is directly connected to the battery to alt. Switching is done at the solenoid. can you turn the starter manually? alt body is grounded, use the hot from the battery to the braided wire at the alt and see if starter turns.

JC,

 

[oldford1710]

Read it. Changing my name to dumbford1700. Its a 1700. Put it all back together (as in your picture) cleaned up battery posts and frame ground and getting low juice on the ignition now - weak horn, one weak light on the instrument panel. I have it on the charger (even though meter said 12.5 volts).

 

[JC-jetro]

Read it. Changing my name to dumbford1700. Its a 1700. Put it all back together (as in your picture) cleaned up battery posts and frame ground and getting low juice on the ignition now - weak horn, one weak light on the instrument panel. I have it on the charger (even though meter said 12.5 volts).

cool, You're making good headway. Just curious why anyone would rewire it as you explained I think you'll have it running once battery is fully charged. I hope your solenoid is not damaged.

JC,

 

[oldford1710]

I haven't given up. Had to take the charger off due to rain. Pulled starter and next step is to have it checked. I will replace the battery ground strap for good measure.

Sidenote, called the local Ford tractor place to see how much a starter was and the parts guy couldn't believe it had a new part listed at $1000. He is checking aftermarket. Looks like this will be bought over the internet, if I need one.

Also anybody have any experience with rebuilding these things? Is it cost effective?