IH 46 square baler knotter problems.

[conestoga_days]

I have an IH 46 baler that isn't knotting like it did in the past. I got it to knot every time now but the bales are not straight. I tried tightening the bale tensions but it didn稚 work. I can watch it knot the bale and as the twine is pulled out of the billhooks the one side pulls out later than the other side. I had trouble with the bad side cutting the twine also but I adjusted the blade and it cuts now but when it knots the twine seems looser on that side causing the bale to be crooked.
I hope I am making since but since I priced some of the suspected bad part, I decided I wanted to make sure the part was bad before I gave up my arm or leg.
TIA

 

[zzvyb6]

Sounds at first like there is a broken tooth (the first one in line), on the intermediate gear wheel. That causes the mechanism to start late on the 'slow' side. That still shouldn't take you down. Check the tension of the twine by trying to pull it by hand all the way the through the system on both sides. They should be the same obviously. There may be some crud blocking the hay restrictors (that hold back the flakes when the plunger retracts), and your main cut knives may need to be sharpened (or shimmed closer together). It depends on whether the strings are the same length loops in a finished bale, or are they different lengths?

It isn't a mystery machine. There's a cause for everything....

 

[conestoga_days]

Sounds at first like there is a broken tooth (the first one in line), on the intermediate gear wheel. That causes the mechanism to start late on the 'slow' side. That still shouldn't take you down. Check the tension of the twine by trying to pull it by hand all the way the through the system on both sides. They should be the same obviously. There may be some crud blocking the hay restrictors (that hold back the flakes when the plunger retracts), and your main cut knives may need to be sharpened (or shimmed closer together). It depends on whether the strings are the same length loops in a finished bale, or are they different lengths?

It isn't a mystery machine. There's a cause for everything....

I have been all over this baler but I'm not sure of the names of the parts, so please bare with me. Where are the hay restrictors? Do they have a spring on them next to the knotter?

Also why do you think the main knives may need to be sharpened? Why would that cause this loose string to happen on the bale?

Thanks for you reply

 

[zzvyb6]

Hay "restrictors" are metal ramps on the bottom and sides of the bale case located at the end of the plunger stroke. There is a dropoff at the end of the ramp so that as a flake is formed, the hay is pushed up the ramp and the flake stays put because of the dropoff. If the drop off section is filled up with dirt, chaff, mud, rust or is broken off, the flake will relax and the length measuring wheel will get a mis-que. The cutoff knives I'm referring to are on the plunger and bale case throat (where the hay goes into the plunger area. If the knives are dull, it chops the hay instead of cuts it. This makes a thicker section in the flake and the bale is longer on the cut side as a result. When the knifes are cutting properly, they actually squirt the hay a bit further towards the end side and the bale is more uniform. I presume you've got a good feeder and the hay is entering the bale case uniformly.

 

[conestoga_days]

zzvyb6
I will have to check the things that you pointed out when I get home. One thing that I didn't mention before that made me think that it was in the knotter is that the ends of the twine after it is knotted are about 2 inchs longer and not cut evenly on the loose side. My guess is the three disc's that grab the twine from the neddle and spin it to the bill hook. I don't see any adjustments on them. I changed the knife that cuts the twine. I'm not real sure how they work to know for sure.

Thanks again

 

[zzvyb6]

There are no ajustments on the twine disks. These are 2 sets of interlocking disks with notches in them to receive the twine when the needles bring it up and also to hold both ends until the billhooks turn and make the knot. If the tucker fingers don't insert the twine into the disk notches, then it may wait until the next 1/4 turn on one of them to complete the operaton. Spin it over slowly by hand to make sure the needles run by and actually touch the intermediate gear wheels and that the tucker fingers draw the twine into the twine disk at the correct time. While you are at it, make sure the twine cut-off knives are sharp enough to cut the twine, not rip it off the twine disk. If one knotter is working ok, then you have a good reference for how both ought to work. The timing of all movements of both knotters should be identical.

Check this out:

YouTube - John Deere Baler Knotter Action

 

[stoillion]

Did you ever get your 46 tying properly?

 

[russ leggitt]

I have an IH 46 baler that isn't knotting like it did in the past. I got it to knot every time now but the bales are not straight. I tried tightening the bale tensions but it didn稚 work. I can watch it knot the bale and as the twine is pulled out of the billhooks the one side pulls out later than the other side. I had trouble with the bad side cutting the twine also but I adjusted the blade and it cuts now but when it knots the twine seems looser on that side causing the bale to be crooked.
I hope I am making since but since I priced some of the suspected bad part, I decided I wanted to make sure the part was bad before I gave up my arm or leg.
TIA

I grew up with my dad baling hay for the public with a No. 46. We baled about 100,000 bales per year. I have seen dad bale 1500-2000 bales in good single species hay and only mis-tie 1-2 bales. I just this fall purchased one and baled 340 bales with it. The baler had set up 2-3 years and after getting the adjustments [twine tensikon, shute tension and knives] set to factory specs it mis-tied two bales of pasture grass. One of the biggest problems with the No. 46 is maintaining an even and uniform windrow and keeping the windrow centered in the baler pickup. What happens is if the charge is not uniform coming into the bale chamber one side of the bale will get more material than the other and will cause the bale to be heavier on one side. All this said assumes that the twine tension is equal on both sides and the shute tension/compression is the same. I hope this helps some.

 

[GREENBOY]

Just wondered about something on these old square balers, I am looking over a International Harvester B47 square baler with the idea of buying it to bale a couple of acres of hay each year (small hobby farm).
When I turned the fly-wheel by hand it runs pretty smoothly until it came to the point where the packer was in its 1st position ie at the front of the baler, here it was stiff for a few turns then ran smoothly, I am wondering if this is a cause for concern or if it will always have a bit of resistance at this point in the cycle. Another thing I noticed was that where the plunger arm meets its drive there is a shoulder joint and this joint is slightly knocking/loose, not too much but its not snug, the guy said it just needs the bushes changed.. is this again a cause for concern?
One last thing, it was apparantly baling last year, but the seller didnt want me to put hay through it to see it all working, as its all nice and cleaned up to sell, should I link it up to his tractor and run it without the hay and trigger the tying mechanism a few times just to see if it runs ok? is this too much to ask, or do you think he is hiding a possible pile of scrap
thanks in advance for guidance..
Greenboy

 

[DanD78]

I would insist on seeing it bail before buying. I know the baler isn't worth much as I have an old 47 as well. I would think with the bale chamber empty it should turn free through the entire cycle. I assume the loose bearing you are talking about is where the pitman arm attaches to the crank shaft. Get it rolled up where you can see it and rock it back and fourth and see how bad it is. Remember the baler is probably 30 yeears old or more. Look at the rollers and bearings on the plunger and the knife condition. These can be adjusted and sharpened but if too loose will make shaggy looking bales or the bales will be stuck together because the hay did not get cut between strokes. Take a half dozon bales to the baler and run them through again and see how it works.

Dan

 

[GREENBOY]

Thanks Dan, i did have a rock around on this arm and it wasnt all that bad.. I am just hesitant that he would rather not get it all dirty with hay!
I think I will go with your idea and insist on a demo...
Will see what happens.

 

[5030]

When I buy hay implements (used) I always look at the implement and if it's clean and nice, I don't buy it.

I never power wash any of my implements, just blow them off with compressed air and grease 'em.

Haying isn't tillage. Hay tools don't engage the ground so they don't need washed.

I don't believe I've ever washed anything other than the tractors.

I just bought a used NH 575 high capacity, extra sweep square bailer from a dealer and I looked carefully to see if it had any chaff under the covers and if the chains were rusty or not. It had chaff and the chains had no rust.

I bought it.

The biggest pile of potential junk (and problems) is a nice and shiny clean used hay tool.

Almost any small square bailer will tie, i so long as it's in time and the knotters are in reasonable condition....t's consistent tying, bale after bale that's important

 

[hayfork47]

Hay "restrictors" are metal ramps on the bottom and sides of the bale case located at the end of the plunger stroke. There is a dropoff at the end of the ramp so that as a flake is formed, the hay is pushed up the ramp and the flake stays put because of the dropoff. If the drop off section is filled up with dirt, chaff, mud, rust or is broken off, the flake will relax and the length measuring wheel will get a mis-que. The cutoff knives I'm referring to are on the plunger and bale case throat (where the hay goes into the plunger area. If the knives are dull, it chops the hay instead of cuts it. This makes a thicker section in the flake and the bale is longer on the cut side as a result. When the knifes are cutting properly, they actually squirt the hay a bit further towards the end side and the bale is more uniform. I presume you've got a good feeder and the hay is entering the bale case uniformly.

How do you time a 46 haybaler. My needles are coming up too late and therefore they get back home too late and it shears the flywheel pin.

 

[385]

Have a 46 miss ties every 10 bales sometimes less and sometimes more. The right side is the only side not tying. Any advice

 

[wee dod]

Have a 46 miss ties every 10 bales sometimes less and sometimes more. The right side is the only side not tying. Any advice

Hi i am looking at a internatiomal 440 square baler, it does need a knotter, does anyone know where i can purchase one.

cheers

 

[GREENBOY]

When I buy hay implements (used) I always look at the implement and if it's clean and nice, I don't buy it.

I never power wash any of my implements, just blow them off with compressed air and grease 'em.

Haying isn't tillage. Hay tools don't engage the ground so they don't need washed.

I don't believe I've ever washed anything other than the tractors.

I just bought a used NH 575 high capacity, extra sweep square bailer from a dealer and I looked carefully to see if it had any chaff under the covers and if the chains were rusty or not. It had chaff and the chains had no rust.

I bought it.

The biggest pile of potential junk (and problems) is a nice and shiny clean used hay tool.

Almost any small square bailer will tie, i so long as it's in time and the knotters are in reasonable condition....t's consistent tying, bale after bale that's important

Well after being tempted by the spanking clean polished and painted baler - I said no and waited for another to come along. and one did -IH B47 I went over and saw it bale 10 or 12 bales 2 of them miss tied and we put it down to blunt blades on the knotters. All the chaff was in various crevices and I had to go for it, got 2 knotters knives/blades thrown in.

So that was august 2012 we are now june 2013 and I have had my first hay bailing encounter. Not having time to completely lubricate it and test all that is, I fired it up and made my way into the field. First 3 bales came out with string hanging and loose and hay in a pile, then it tied 3 nice ones although the knots are not as they should be - a bit straggly and un-evenly cut. After 7 good but a bit banana like bales and the odd bundle of untied hay, as i was coming into a row with the baler turning over and no hay feeding in the Shear bolt on the fly wheel broke.

I have yet to work out what the problem was/is but I have an operators manual and will work my way through it.

Just wondered one thing - people talk of timing the baler, so that needles dont go into the chamber when the plunger comes along and the fingers that feed in the hay dont either.

I cant see in the operators manual anywhere that shows you how to time the baler? am i missing some pages or do these B47's not need to be timed, would be good to know incase there is a slight timing issue, before I replace the shear bolt and find out later.

Many thanks

 

[wakadue]

inside knotter is doing its job, but the outside will have 2 stinges on bale, and loose I put in a new knife but did not help inside is tight outside is loose..

 

[GREENBOY]

I have the same problem, on a B47 baler. Looking form the back towards the tractor the right hand knotter does not cut the twine fully, leaving 80% of the twine uncut, this then gets stripped off the bill hook and breaks the rest of the uncut twine, at best you get a very tight (but not a loop) knot with a long straggly tail at worst it pull the twine through the formed knot and you have an loose un-tied side. I have moved the knife to cut sooner/closer to the twine by adding washers but i think the problem might be that the twine being cut is not held tight enough by the twine disc so any knife pressure simply pushed the twine out of the holder.

Could it be the twine disc holders are loose? is it easy to tighten - or do i need to dismantle and remove a shim?

Could a thinner twine help to hold it firmer?

What about re-timing the disc? i read about putting a drill bit in the hole in the knotter frame and then lining it up with the hole in the disc, but i annot see the hole in the knotter frame, also i read about loosening the pinion and wrapping it with a hammer to break the tappered seal and then this will enable you to re-time the discs, i tried this but I didnt want to hit it too hard, could there be a small cotter pin in there somewhere that needs removing first..?

I am a bit miffed if someone can shed some light.

 

[wakadue]

inside knotter is doing its job, but the outside will have 2 stinges on bale, and loose I put in a new knife but did not help inside is tight outside is loose..

actually I found my problem, the inside twine holder has a side shoe (looks like) spring steele held on by the knife bolts, any how there was clearance on the inside and 0 on outside so I bent the out side away so it did not touch the twine holder went out and bailed 10 12 bales without a miss tie working good now. without a book it is a little tougher I will have to get me one

 

[gthorule1971]

i have the same problem(inside perfect every time, outside very hit and miss) thanks for the ideas ill go check some of these things today.ive tried moving knives in,out,and round about but it just wont cut the twine completely on that side.the blades are sharp enough to shave with so ill check some of these things out