IH 464 or Ford 3000

[Bamaram]

I'm trying to decide between these two tractors. I will mostly be brushogging and finishing mowing and tilling 1 acre gardens for multiple people in my neighborhood.

IH 464 is gas and has somewhere around 45 horsepower at the pto and 41 at the drawbar. The seller states that it runs well except for a slight smoke when under load and it possibly needs a clutch adjustment. The smoke under load just seems like a simple carb adjustment or possibly could be blow by, correct? As for the possible clutch adjustment, any ideas? The tractor has an independent PTO. The tractor has 5500 hours on it and comes with a bushhog.

The Ford 3000 is gas and has somewhere around 40 horspower at the pto and 35 at the drawbar. It is newly painted with no dents or rust and the seller says it is ready to go. I know new paint doesn't make the tractor run better so I'll have to give it a good look through.

the IH 464 is cheaper and comes with a bush hog. The ford, according to the owner, has no issues and looks awesome, but is under powered compared to the IH and has no implements. What do ya'll think abou these two? I'm trying to get the serial numbers so I can look up exactly what transmissions each have. Any advice is well appreciated!

 

[PoorPlowboy]

Neither. Get a diesel tractor for fuel efficiency and torque. Torque is the only way to measure the work able to be done by a tractor. I have some old International gassers, and the diesels can out work them daylight to dark, every day, all week.

My vote is for a MF135 or MF150 with a Perkins.

 

[whodat526]

you need to find a ford 3000 diesel or a mf 135 diesel both have around 45 pto hp and have a better parts supply than a ih of that era

 

[milkman636]

New paint on an old tractor generally scares me. Its nice to see them in their natural state. Can't really tell anything from that fact that it is repainted though.

The 464 sound like it may not be a prize either. Black smoke = gas, blue smoke = oil, white smoke= coolant, clutch = worn, at 5500 hours any of these are possible.

Diesel will burn about 1/3 less fuel, but torque output of a diesel vs. gas in these models will be identical. If you buy it right either of these tracors could be good, but with their service time I would expect both to require some investment in repairs. Sound like at least the IH guy is leaving some bread crumbs out for you to guesstimate future repair costs. Assume worst case for any problems you observe. It is seldom "best case".

Unless they are sitting on turf tires, neither one really sounds like the best option for finish mowing though?

 

[Soundguy]

if the 3000 is an 8spd.. I'd get that one. of the 2 toy mention. I always like to buy one with less defects right off the bat.

no fun buying a tractor to use and putting a clutch in it immediatly.

'needs adjustment' is seller speak for 'clutch is slipping' usually.

as others said. a diesel would be preferred for fuel economy. power steering too.

how much is the 3000?

soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I've owned a 3000 gas and a 3000 diesel. Gasser was cold natured as all get-out. But once running, a very capable tractor. Torque ratings APPEAR similar, but there's a substancial difference in how that torque is delivered....A diesel 3000 will outwork the gasser by quite a bit. Same with the IH. No secret there....

It's so easy to generalize when comparing two different tractors. Which one WAS better (when new)? .......Makes absolutely no difference whatsoever. They aren't new any longer. The ONLY thing that really matters now is which one is in better condition NOW.

BOTH the Ford and the IH were great little utility tractors in their day. The Ford was less expensive when new, and the crowd that was buying 40hp class tractors back then, price meant quite a bit. So more Fords were sold. That DOES NOT mean the IH was any less of a tractor. At that time, IH was more in to bigger hp class tractors, and didn't put forth the marketing effort that Ford did in the light utility range.

Take a look at which one is in best condition. Look at potential problems, as well as considering issues "hinted at" by seller. The idea that they even bring up a potential problem is almost always an indicator there IS a problem.

It's not unusual for a diesel to smoke a bit. It's at the very least, a yellow flag, if not a RED flag on a gasser. And the possibility of needing a new clutch makes a tractor worth less in my book, to the tune of $1000 or more.

A word of advice from a guy who's bought and re-sold literally HUNDREDS of used tractors over the years......Don't lock yourself in to picking from a limited pool.....Better tractors will come along. There are plenty of good ones around in that price range that don't need major repairs. And we're coming up on the time of year when the list of tractors on the market begins to grow. (winter) Find one you're happy with and don't limit yourself to "the lesser of two evils".

 

[Bamaram]

Excellent advice from everyone. The price is about $1,000 different with the IH being cheaper but it does look worn out. The Ford 3000 looks brand new and I don't just say that because of the paint. The tractor doesn't have a dent or ding in it at all. Still working on getting the serial numbers. I hear the Select-O-Speed tranny in the Ford isn't the most bullet proof and honestly I'm not to interested in that tranny anyway. I will eventually have to get a set of turf tires I'm sure, but finding a tractor in the alabama with them on there already is a needle in a haystack kind of thing. Us southerners enjoy our mud! Both tractors are mid 70s so I'm sure each will require maintenance. I like the idea of a diesel, but I have no experience what so ever working with diesel. I have worked on several Ford gas tractors and multiple truck/car gas engines so I'm more comfortable with them. I missed one heck of a deal last week on a Massey Ferguson 135 w/ a 5ft Bushhog and 5ft box blade for $2900. Them's the breaks I suppose!

 

[Soundguy]

If you like gas, go with gas.. I personally like 65+ ford diesels, and 55-64 ford gassers.. but we each have our comfort zone.

when you find a good condition / good runner, you will know ( any brand..e tc. )

yep.. a MF 135 with 5' hog, for 2900$, if it was in running condition was a steal.

Are you saying this 3000 has the 10spd SOS tranny? I'm not completely fond of those and generally prefer the 8spd twin stick.. though some people love them. By the time the 65+ models came out.. the big problems with the sos had mostly been worked out. it was the earlier 59-62 mostly models that had issues.. especially the ORC models. the DDC models were much better IMHO.

soundguy

 

[Bamaram]

Are you saying this 3000 has the 10spd SOS tranny?

soundguy

No, I haven't been able to get the guy on the phone yet. I'm not sure which transmission it has in it. I'm hoping for the 8sp like you say. I'm a little wary of the SOS myself. I've heard too many horror stories and when it comes to transmissions I like to keep it simple.

 

[Bamaram]

What are your thoughts on a Ford 601 Workmaster. I know 601 is the series name and the one I have found is either a 641 through 681. It's pretty close to home and I may go give it the look over this weekend. It seems like a steal at $1900.

 

[Soundguy]

641 is a 4 speed tranny, manual gear.. 681 would be that 'dreaded sos' in t he bad year range, depending on if it was traded out or not.. it would be 10spd forward, 2 reverse, and have a 540/1000 rpm pto '8' designates that. a '7' would be single speed pto. either would have indepentent pto.. while the 4 speed has non live pto.. a 5spd ( 651 ) with non live pto could be had as well as a 5 spd with live pto / 2 stage clutch ( 661 ) could be had.

all fords had live hyds 53+ the 01 series is 58-62 model years.

it's a 34hp machine.. 2 bottom plow.. could run a 6' rotary mower in mild to medium conditions.. or 5' in any condition.. good for a dual ganged 6.5' disc, or an 8' pull disc..

NOT good for a tiller unless it had the SOS tranny. If it has the sos tranny, see if it's been feild service repalced with the newer DDC tranny.. also verify that it runs in all ranges / hot / cold.

on the 3000.. 4 spd plain has 1 stick.. 6 and 8spd has twin sticks 8spds should be live 2 stage clutch.. 6spds are rare in a 3000 but available.. most all 6spds were non live pto.. a few I have heard could be live pto.. check model id to tell.. 10spd sos is a weird shifter mounted on the dash cowling.. not a regulr stick.. as mentioned.. sos is a 'powershift' sync'd gear tranny.. not hydro, or HST/ or auto-trans like a car..e tc.

occasionally you also found a few exotic trans options, like power or manual reversers, 6x4 trannies.. etc.. much more rare and usually for different than agg application.. etc. the 6spd was more of an economy jobber and seen more often in 2000 models.

soundguy

 

[mooseracing]

Unless they are sitting on turf tires, neither one really sounds like the best option for finish mowing though?

Not a big deal unless you are mowing really soft ground. I have R1 type tires and I mow the yard when it is wet as other wise it drives my allergies nuts. The only time I leave marks are when I use the wheel brakes and turning tight.

 

[Bamaram]

NOT good for a tiller unless it had the SOS tranny.

soundguy

Why would it not be good with a tiller if it was manual shift? I'm not exactly the most experienced with a tiller behind a tractor, so I'm probably missing something obvious. :confused2:

 

[Soundguy]

Why would it not be good with a tiller if it was manual shift? I'm not exactly the most experienced with a tiller behind a tractor, so I'm probably missing something obvious. :confused2:

fords are known to have tall gears.. 4 spds just don't do well with a tiller.. too fast. 5 spds not great either. a 5spd in a rowcrop 901 model with smaller than normal tires.. ie.. 11.2-28 might get by in average soil as you have a couple things dropping ground speed there, plus a high hp engine.. but still.. a twin stick tranny or better is needed for tilling with a very few exceptions for fords... for example.. for older models there was an everette trencher tranny that dropped ground speed about 98:1 and a howard rotovator tranny that dropepd it as well.. both left pto unchanged.. thus you had much reduced ground speed and pto speed was still high.. which is what you need for roto-tilling.

plowing now.. fords plow excelent.. it's what they were built for...

soundguy

 

[Bamaram]

Do you think $1900 is a pretty good deal on a 601 Series? I'll have to get more info, but I know it has a pto and 3pt hitch. So, it has to be at least a 641, 651,661, 671, or 681. I'll have more information on it soon.

On another tangent, what about a John Deere 302? I know it is a industrial model and 50HP but that is about it. Not too much information on that particular model on the web. makes me wonder :confused

 

[Soundguy]

1900$ is a great deal on a ford 6x1 even if it was a 671 / 681, as long as the pto worked and it drove and hyds worked, and had no life threatoning issues.. like oil in water, water in oil, or oil pressure below 15 psi at hot idle..

soundguy