I'm contemplating investing in timber land in New England

[dave1949]

GIS software is thousands i think? Its very expensive. Arc view basically has a monopoly and is extremly pricy for a small business let alone a landowner just wanting to map his place.

Ouch! Guess I won't be doing that. I never looked into the cost, just assumed something reasonable for non-commercial use is available.

 

[dmccarty]

I wish we had GIS here, the town is working on it. We are a bit behind the technology curve here. Our counties are less involved in that sort of stuff than the individual towns.

If GIS is available, or your own land survey in digital, using the "track" function on a GPS unit with upload capability is supposed to work pretty good. Just walk around the area you want to map with tracking turned on, upload that and add it to the digital map. That's my understanding, maybe someday I will be able to do that. I would have to upgrade from my ancient Garmin GPS III unit.

I am tempted to ask the survey company that did ours if they can provide my survey in digital form. I would have to get the software for the PC, etc.

Do you lot lines show up in Google Maps?

I THINK my CADD program allows one to input longitude and latitude and while it is not super expensive it is not cheap either. In any case, the GIS maps worked and Google would work as well for our place.

Later,
Dan

 

[dave1949]

Most recently was 12 years back and had a history going back another 25 years. Area was to the north of Bangor maybe 40 miles and to the west by about the same distance. My broad experience with Tree Growth around there was the property tax reduction that came about for just letting the wood grow. It had to be a parcel larger than a certain amount--I think 10 acres--and if you sold to someone that did not plan to continue the tree Growth aspect of things they had to pay the back tax discount as a "recapture". The program was commonly referred to as the "Tree Growth Tax" program because all it seemed to do was give the tax break and everyone that could would take advantage of it. I dealt with it in a lot of ways and had foresters as friends that surveyed for me and never had any plan nor was one suggested. Maybe it was a regional thing?

As well, I don't recall any purpose to prevent subdivision because you can't--or couldn't --divide into smaller than 40 acre parcels without getting the state's permission and involvement.

Now, things could well have changed--and probably have--so I do need to defer to you--dave1949. You are likely far more clued it on this and live in an area of the state where Tree Growth is daily conversation.

As much as as I dearly love the Pine Tree State and my time spent there, some of it is fading away. It was quite the place in the 1970's and probably still is. Who knows, maybe part of the year spent there might be in my future.

I am no expert. I have been learning what I can. At the moment, I am taking a woodlot management class that is taught by our state district forester. so, I am getting up to speed on some of these issues.

Here is the current Tree Growth law: http://www.maine.gov/revenue/forms/property/pubs/bull19.pdf

擢orest management and harvest plan "means a written document that outlines activities to
regenerate, improve and harvest a standing crop of timber. The plan must include the location of
water bodies and wildlife habitat identified by the Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife. A
plan may include, but is not limited to, schedules and recommendations for timber stand
improvement, harvesting plans and recommendations for regeneration activities. The plan must be
prepared by a licensed professional forester or a landowner and be reviewed and certified by a
licensed professional forester as consistent with this subsection and with sound silvicultural
practices."

You can do your own, but it has to be reviewed and certified by a lic. forester. And every ten years, a lic. forester has to certify that the plan is being followed.

I doubt if the enforcement is very stringent. I can't see Martha, our town tax clerk, running around checking people's Tree Growth compliance. :laughing: But, if someone wants to make trouble ... you know how that goes in small towns. Were you in a town or a township/unorganized territory?

Tree Growth got a lot of publicity last year when the then State Treasurer, was running for governor and it was found that he was getting huge tax breaks on 12 acres of ocean front land, that by his deed restrictions could not be harvested. :fiery:

 

[dave1949]

Do you lot lines show up in Google Maps?

I THINK my CADD program allows one to input longitude and latitude and while it is not super expensive it is not cheap either. In any case, the GIS maps worked and Google would work as well for our place.

Later,
Dan

No lot lines on Google Maps. The town just budgeted money to put lot plans online with GIS, so that may help in some way. Maybe they would show up in Google after that?

 

[sixdogs]

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I doubt if the enforcement is very stringent. I can't see Martha, our town tax clerk, running around checking people's Tree Growth compliance. :laughing: But, if someone wants to make trouble ... you know how that goes in small towns. Were you in a town or a township/unorganized territory?

I was in a town/towns with very low population and yes, our town clerk was too busy just trying to not fall behind. She was in her 80's and pretty much running the entire town. What a great time and wow, the stories I could tell. Have you been in ME a long time?

 

[dmccarty]

No lot lines on Google Maps. The town just budgeted money to put lot plans online with GIS, so that may help in some way. Maybe they would show up in Google after that?

Interesting. I was guessing that Google was getting the lot line information from public sources, which would have to be the county. Since your county does not have the lot lines it makes sense that Google does not have the lines either.

On the other hand, do they have the information in the county office? Before our county put the maps online they were available in the GIS office. They had both the plots and photos with lot lines laid out.

Later,
Dan

 

[tractchores]

My town has gis and google shows lot lines, but they're pretty far off and in some areas totally wrong, i wouldn't use it for anything authoratative.

 

[dave1949]

I was in a town/towns with very low population and yes, our town clerk was too busy just trying to not fall behind. She was in her 80's and pretty much running the entire town. What a great time and wow, the stories I could tell. Have you been in ME a long time?

We moved to Maine in 1994. Lived in Wells for the first 12 years, then up here since 2006. I bet you have stories. I get a hoot out of small town Maine, it's not quite like anything I've lived before. The small village we lived in while in Germany comes close. Some of the same characters, different language. :laughing:

We don't have any roots anywhere near Maine, we are both from Ohio. Now that we are retired, we pitch in here and there. I think volunteer efforts are the only way these small communities are going to be decent places to live. "Brighten the corner where you are" -- remember Burl Ives singing that?

I help out at the volunteer fire dept., and now I'm an alternate member on the planning board. I did a lot of work on the Wind Turbine ordinance, which thank goodness passed at town meeting (73-3). My wife volunteers with the community kitchen group. They serve a nice meal every other Thursday noon at the town hall, and give the old folks a place to socialize and play bingo afterwards. They are planning a community garden behind the food pantry building this summer. Poverty is real here.

 

[dave1949]

Interesting. I was guessing that Google was getting the lot line information from public sources, which would have to be the county. Since your county does not have the lot lines it makes sense that Google does not have the lines either.

On the other hand, do they have the information in the county office? Before our county put the maps online they were available in the GIS office. They had both the plots and photos with lot lines laid out.

Later,
Dan

The county is the legal repository of land deeds and transactions, but I don't think they have tax maps showing lot boundaries. The town has those on paper, but they are not well maintained. They hope by going to GIS, that will improve, plus put it online where it is more easily accessible.

Counties here are pretty limited in function, unless you live in what they call townships or unorganized territories. It means you aren't living in a town with a state charter. About 1/3 of northern Maine is unorganized territories. Most of that is large timber tracts and few people.

 

[sixdogs]

Wow, dave1949, you are a busy guy. We decided to retire to somewhere warmer after the Great Ice Storm of 1998 or whenever it was. We are really self-sufficient in whatever we might have needed, so we were OK, but it's nice to be warmer for a while. Yeah, I could write a book.
Burl Ives---how did you know? I don't recall that tune but packed away in some box I have some of his 1960's albums. Any, yeah, bingo and beano, the offical state games.