I'm without my 422 for awhile.......

[MuncyBob]

Well, an update to my saga. If we could have coordinated it last weekend I was planning a trip up to NY to take Kevin up on his very genereous offer. Now I'm glad I did'nt make the trip. Spoke with the folks at Robin and apparently after serial# 2000000 they made a change. Even though the heads may be interchangable the newer models would also require a piston change and other work. My serial number is one of the old ones and I'm not sure Kevin's heads would work.
Now I have my heads at a machine shop and am hoping they can be saved or apparently it's another engine in the works. I'm told the issues are all heat related, so an additional fan will be installed(sure would appreciate a PM from anybody that has done this), exhaust pipes will be insulated somehow(has anybody done this?) and I plan to use the PT sparingly on very hot summer days. I wish there was enough room in the tub for a water cooled engine!

 

[ponytug]

Insulating the pipes is straight forward. You can get muffler blankets, but I don't have a part # for the 422.
Kragen/O'Reilly/Amazon works for heat tape. Just start at one end, wrap with about 50% overlap, stretching it tight, and use stainless wire to fasten the end down.
Bear in mind that the exhaust is going to be hotter. You may want to consider ensuring that it is not blowing on anything that you don't want to ignite.

You can get radiator cooling fans from any auto parts store, or junkyard. I'd add a relay to a switch for power control, and run a direct line back to the battery (with fuse!) to power it. Generally, pushing air works better than pulling air, and pushing clean/cool air works best of all, but moving any air is an improvement. Try to get a fan with a shroud.

Every little bit helps.

All the best,

Peter

 

[cqaigy2]

I did the wrap on the exhaust pipes. Just like Peter said. I also painted mine with high heat black.

 

[J_J]

Well, an update to my saga. If we could have coordinated it last weekend I was planning a trip up to NY to take Kevin up on his very genereous offer. Now I'm glad I did'nt make the trip. Spoke with the folks at Robin and apparently after serial# 2000000 they made a change. Even though the heads may be interchangable the newer models would also require a piston change and other work. My serial number is one of the old ones and I'm not sure Kevin's heads would work.
Now I have my heads at a machine shop and am hoping they can be saved or apparently it's another engine in the works. I'm told the issues are all heat related, so an additional fan will be installed(sure would appreciate a PM from anybody that has done this), exhaust pipes will be insulated somehow(has anybody done this?) and I plan to use the PT sparingly on very hot summer days. I wish there was enough room in the tub for a water cooled engine!

I believe I have one of the few water cooled engines in the PT line, PT-1445.

It is a 4 cyl Ford industrial engine , 45 HP, early 90's with 3pt attachments.

 

[MossRoad]

If I were going to build my own, and I'm not, I'd put in a Ford or Chevy straight 4 gas engine from a junkyard. While a Kubota diesel would be a close 2nd, I still don't trust diesels in the winter based on old experiences. Gas always starts. Diesel needs fussing(to be kind) around with.

 

[Gravy]

Well, an update to my saga. If we could have coordinated it last weekend I was planning a trip up to NY to take Kevin up on his very genereous offer. Now I'm glad I did'nt make the trip. Spoke with the folks at Robin and apparently after serial# 2000000 they made a change. Even though the heads may be interchangable the newer models would also require a piston change and other work. My serial number is one of the old ones and I'm not sure Kevin's heads would work.
Now I have my heads at a machine shop and am hoping they can be saved or apparently it's another engine in the works. I'm told the issues are all heat related, so an additional fan will be installed(sure would appreciate a PM from anybody that has done this), exhaust pipes will be insulated somehow(has anybody done this?) and I plan to use the PT sparingly on very hot summer days. I wish there was enough room in the tub for a water cooled engine!

If you are willing to make the drive to SW VA or arrange for shipping, you are welcome to my old EH72. It's been rode hard and put up wet, but it's still alive and kicking. It has some blow-by and has lost a bit of horsepower since it was new, but it still has decent compression and doesn't make bad noises or leave puddles. It would probably serve well in place of the EH65 for a few more years.

 

[Raw Dodge]

If I were you I'd cut my losses with that Robin engine, and get a new engine. It sounds like it got really hot,it had to to damage the air cooled OHV/OHC heads, so some where your air fins got blocked or the airflow was blocked by mouse nest,leaves or grass debris...besides the blow by had to be from low compression,worn rings or overheated rings that lost there spring tension and no longer could hold compression, or a blown head gasket....unless the engine was (dusted) as we call it,but you were up on the maintenance so its not likely.I'd like to feel the old rings ,measure the ring end gap and look at everything. An engines parts tell a story if you know what to look for,you can read it and tell what happened ...

 

[MuncyBob]

Based on what the shops have told me and from what folks here have said, I'm convinced my problem is heat related. Going back and reading the threads of installing the Robin muffler, the cage side fan, etc. I guess I never really appreciated just how hot it got in the tub. Hopefully a complete valve job, heads reworked and new gaskets will get me back in the saddle...then before it gets warm again the muffler and cage fan will be addressed. The VERY generous offers of engines here is appreciated and while I hope not to take any of you up on those offers I'm not saying you won't hear from me!

 

[KMA]

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you with the engine serial number... I've been on business travel this week, and I'm also in the middle of changing jobs, so it's very hectic.

According to my discussions with Robin Subraru tech support, their engines are not supposed to be exposed to the heat found in the PT4xx tub. I've been battling heat issues since day one, now on my second engine. If you go through some of my threads, you may see my fan installation and exhaust wrap over a new manifold (and muffler). Good luck!

 

[MuncyBob]

No problem Kevin, like I said I'm hoping I can resolve everything here but have yet to hear from the machine shop. It's too cold to be on the tractor right now anyhow!

 

[MuncyBob]

FINALLY got my PT back. I'm thinking that the labor charge is unreasonable. What they did is remove engine, performed yet another leak down test, take off heads, replace fuel line & filter, replace breather tube, replace 1 spark plug wire, replace heads and reinstall engine. 12 hours labor, keep in mind heads were reworked by another shop. For those of you that have R&R a 422 or 425 engine, what say you?

 

[Marks481]

Did that solve the problem?

If you are convinced you ran into problems because of heat under the hood (which I would very much agree is a major problem), than I recommend:
1. New exhaust header with muffler outside the cage. The PT exhaust header is horribly built and cooks everything under the hood.
2. Insulating wrap around the exhaust header
3. Additional fan mounted on the side of the hood to pull out hot air.

 

[MossRoad]

FINALLY got my PT back. I'm thinking that the labor charge is unreasonable. What they did is remove engine, performed yet another leak down test, take off heads, replace fuel line & filter, replace breather tube, replace 1 spark plug wire, replace heads and reinstall engine. 12 hours labor, keep in mind heads were reworked by another shop. For those of you that have R&R a 422 or 425 engine, what say you?

While it seems like an excessive amount of time, lets remember this is a foreign machine to them. They had to learn as they went as well. So 3-4 hours to figure out how to get the engine out by either disconnecting all the hydraulics or pulling the pumps, then 2-3 to get it back in.... so best guess is 5-7 hours just to pull the engine and re-install it.

 

[Frank Sorbello]

Did they get it fixed? How much did they hit you for the repair?

 

[MuncyBob]

I'll be following in Kent's footsteps with the side mount fan and Robin exhaust. He documented how much this helped to lower the temp inside the tub. Maybe if the Robin was cast this would not be such an issue.

I've only run it for a few minutes so time will tell if it's actually solved the problem but at over $1000 it better!

Moss, I figured about 5 hours to R&R the engine by disconnecting hoses, maybe another 2 for the small stuff they did at that shop. At $60/hr that's a few bucks of 7 versus 12. I wanted them to move the fuel pump but they said there was a problem doing that. Heck, they didn't even clean the tub floor while the engine was out.

 

[Marks481]

I wanted them to move the fuel pump but they said there was a problem doing that.

All it takes to move the fuel pump is a length of 1/4" vacuum hose and somewhere to bolt it to. On my machine, the fuel pump was mounted on the left cylinder head...next to the muffler... definitely not an optimal place. I moved it up forward to under the fuel tank.

Maybe its better they left that to you to do, as the 5 minute job might have cost you 2 hours of shop time...

 

[MossRoad]

I'll be following in Kent's footsteps with the side mount fan and Robin exhaust. He documented how much this helped to lower the temp inside the tub. Maybe if the Robin was cast this would not be such an issue.

I've only run it for a few minutes so time will tell if it's actually solved the problem but at over $1000 it better!

Moss, I figured about 5 hours to R&R the engine by disconnecting hoses, maybe another 2 for the small stuff they did at that shop. At $60/hr that's a few bucks of 7 versus 12. I wanted them to move the fuel pump but they said there was a problem doing that. Heck, they didn't even clean the tub floor while the engine was out.

Here's what I've found about paying people to do work for me.... I'm rarely 100% satisfied. And I've also learned that I have to pay for an education... I don't like it, but its easier to move along with "lesson learned" than it is to harbor anger. HA! Who am I kidding? I'm usually ticked for several weeks, months or even years! :laughing:

My current auto mechanic lives across the street. He does any work that I don't know how to do on our older vehicles. The main thing I like about him is he'll tell me "I have no clue why your truck runs like ****. I've tried the obvious and anything else will be taking shots in the dark and will cost you because I'll have to replace component by component until the problem is resolved." At least he's honest about it. And he shows me what he's doing so I can do it if it happens again. But he's a rare breed.