IMHO THIS TRACTOR PUTS JD TO SHAME!

[CliffordK]

The warranty may be gone, but it’ll be gone on any other brand of farm tractor, too.

In terms of “obsolete electronics” wouldn’t you rather buy a super high quality farm tractor out of warranty than an average quality farm tractor out of warranty? And why would the electronics be “obsolete”?

Like what’s your point?
You think it’s better to buy a junky brand and hope it holds up better than a quality brand?

So far it has been excellent. Fendt is a 100 year old German company now owned by an American company AGCO, who is very well supported.

Why wouldn’t it have any less support that the other biggies like CNH or Deere? I might give Deere the nod on being best for parts support, but AGCO has been fine for me so far.

I've been reading about Caterpillar and Deere not wanting to share their diagnostics tools. It hasn't been an issue for my tractor purchases. But, I have encountered it in vehicles. Not just a single ECU, but a dozen of them, and not all vehicle OBDII readers will interact with all the ECUs, or be able to clear fault codes.

Or, while the OBDII plug is fairly universal in the car world today, the fault codes are not. I've got one that I don't believe any off the shelf OBDII reader will give me any useful information.

I can't say how Fendt is approaching this issue.

With all the computer screens on modern vehicles, I'd think they could simply send the diagnostics, and perhaps repair details directly to one of the onboard screens. Yet, at least in the automotive world, they like to simply flash a "Check Engine" light, and let the owner figure out the rest. I've had a no start condition due to an electronics failure on my RAM (two different ECUs weren't communicating properly), and I've been driving down the freeway when it threw it into limp mode without warning. Low enough power that I had to put it into 4WD Low just to get to a safe parking spot.

The electronics are not that advanced, I'm quite sure somebody will design replacements, electronics are not magical, and many younger people have both mechanical and electrical skills.

I can't say about industrial controls. With consumer electronics, if you have a 20 year old computer, and it still works, then it won't play nice with the modern internet and other programs. My former company liked Windows NT which didn't play nice with the now ubiquitous USB, although there may be some 3rd party drivers out now.

If you have a 20 year old cell phone, you'll have troubles finding new batteries for it, and most new applications won't work on it. If you're unlucky enough to have an "analog" cell phone, the cell providers won't allow it to connect to their networks. I've had issues with ATT merging with Cingular, then locking their own ATT phones off of their network.

So, if your 20 year old industrial controls still work, perhaps they're OK. You may not get modern updates, but if they're OK today, then perhaps they'll be sufficient for the job in the future. But blow a screen, and you may be scrambling as the whole tractor may not be able to simply bypass the broken part.

Then, there is also scale. Anybody with an older piece of farm equipment from a lesser brand knows that one may be on one's own for repairs, quite literally. Break an axle or a gear, and you're off to the local machine shop to make a new one. Even if the brand still exists, they may simply say "sorry".

So the video indicated that there were literally 3 tractors similar to the video demo in the USA. Presumably more coming. But, a few thousand, and nobody will actually care about keeping them running in the future.

With computers you have hardware and software. A screen on the Fendt may look like a $50 Amazon Kindle, but the Kindle won't run your tractor without both the hardware interface to the tractor, as well as the software to run the interface.

 

[CliffordK]

Same here, I own a small farm it's just an expensive hobby, I have some income on it but that's not farming, last year I had 600$ of profit on selling grass and renting out fields to my neighbour. Most of the profit comes from sale of hunting rights, renting out land to industrial use and I have some income from hydroelectric deals on rivers, but its not close to enough to keep it in the state that i would want.

A few decades ago you could make a modest living out of it, you might have to work a bit on the side of it if you wanted a good economy.

But here in Europe we are starting to see that farming is a question of national security, so we might have to get small farms up and running again.

Yep, feed the population should be the #1 priority for any government. A lot of governments are worried about a decrease in population growth. But, it comes back to feed the population.

We've got a few boutique small farms that seem to do OK. I need to talk to some neighbors, but they seem to have hundreds of chickens, ducks, goats, and sheep, all on a tiny farm, and I think sell directly off of the farm.

I spent some time in Italy a while ago. I need to get back there!!! At that time, there were a variety of farms from small to mid sized. I visited a cheese farm. They made two cheese wheels a day. Everything was utilized. Not only did they have a small dairy, but they also had pigs that they fed the whey to. Veal was popular in Italy (and thus the dairy steers).

 

[Agvg]

But a lot of the electronics are not very advanced, and might be easy replaced with a Arduino or similar micro controler, I have seen hobbyist make a Arduino based ECU to use a VW car engine as a stationary engine, it was quite doable and now the code and wiring is probably public domain if anyone have a rusted old Golf with good engine that is hardware for a few dollar.
We have old MF in the 3000 series from the eighties that had electronic controls for the three points, it's not the electronics that fails and makes the tractor a parts machine. If it becomes a big enough problem people get creative, much easier to order a custom print board and std components and make a new part then order a casting and get it machines. On older tractors one of the most problematic thing is 4WD front axle, no parts, very little standardised so parts are produced in small series and often by companies that no longer exist.

 

[ultrarunner]

Not every small producer, but I'm sure you've seen them in your area.
I know a guy who has a huge commercial plumbing business, huge $$$.
He does beef and his JD dealer loves his and I'm sure his neighbor farmers have a little bit of contempt or jealousy towards him. (understandably).
What's the old saying? How do you make a million dollars farming, start with 2 million.

One of the Doctors who owns a practice with multiple sites and Doctors under him has a wife into horses with a large somewhat exclusive boarding barn.

He is John Deere and one call to his salesman and whatever it is taken care of.

He confided the horse business has never made profit but keeps his AG classification and more important keeps the wife very happy and they like the social aspect.

If he was not a very successful Doc it would not be possible.

 

[ultrarunner]

I've been reading about Caterpillar and Deere not wanting to share their diagnostics tools. It hasn't been an issue for my tractor purchases. But, I have encountered it in vehicles. Not just a single ECU, but a dozen of them, and not all vehicle OBDII readers will interact with all the ECUs, or be able to clear fault codes.

Or, while the OBDII plug is fairly universal in the car world today, the fault codes are not. I've got one that I don't believe any off the shelf OBDII reader will give me any useful information.

I can't say how Fendt is approaching this issue.

With all the computer screens on modern vehicles, I'd think they could simply send the diagnostics, and perhaps repair details directly to one of the onboard screens. Yet, at least in the automotive world, they like to simply flash a "Check Engine" light, and let the owner figure out the rest. I've had a no start condition due to an electronics failure on my RAM (two different ECUs weren't communicating properly), and I've been driving down the freeway when it threw it into limp mode without warning. Low enough power that I had to put it into 4WD Low just to get to a safe parking spot.


I can't say about industrial controls. With consumer electronics, if you have a 20 year old computer, and it still works, then it won't play nice with the modern internet and other programs. My former company liked Windows NT which didn't play nice with the now ubiquitous USB, although there may be some 3rd party drivers out now.

If you have a 20 year old cell phone, you'll have troubles finding new batteries for it, and most new applications won't work on it. If you're unlucky enough to have an "analog" cell phone, the cell providers won't allow it to connect to their networks. I've had issues with ATT merging with Cingular, then locking their own ATT phones off of their network.

So, if your 20 year old industrial controls still work, perhaps they're OK. You may not get modern updates, but if they're OK today, then perhaps they'll be sufficient for the job in the future. But blow a screen, and you may be scrambling as the whole tractor may not be able to simply bypass the broken part.

Then, there is also scale. Anybody with an older piece of farm equipment from a lesser brand knows that one may be on one's own for repairs, quite literally. Break an axle or a gear, and you're off to the local machine shop to make a new one. Even if the brand still exists, they may simply say "sorry".

So the video indicated that there were literally 3 tractors similar to the video demo in the USA. Presumably more coming. But, a few thousand, and nobody will actually care about keeping them running in the future.

With computers you have hardware and software. A screen on the Fendt may look like a $50 Amazon Kindle, but the Kindle won't run your tractor without both the hardware interface to the tractor, as well as the software to run the interface.

Very much the same with medical equipment… lose manufacturer support and you got nothing.

So much big hospital equipment is leased to avoid having to deal with it.

 

[Agvg]

Yep, feed the population should be the #1 priority for any government. A lot of governments are worried about a decrease in population growth. But, it comes back to feed the population.

We've got a few boutique small farms that seem to do OK. I need to talk to some neighbors, but they seem to have hundreds of chickens, ducks, goats, and sheep, all on a tiny farm, and I think sell directly off of the farm.

I spent some time in Italy a while ago. I need to get back there!!! At that time, there were a variety of farms from small to mid sized. I visited a cheese farm. They made two cheese wheels a day. Everything was utilized. Not only did they have a small dairy, but they also had pigs that they fed the whey to. Veal was popular in Italy (and thus the dairy steers).

Yes, but the food culture in those regions are very
different, we have an extremely rigorous set of rules, almost impossible to sell food without sending it through the industrial production lines, if you want to slaughter and sell meat you must have an approved small scale slaughter house, you must have a veterinary present and a myriad of regulations, you can only use the meat in your own household if you dont follow the rules, you are not allowed to give it a way, not sure you can serve it outside you own family, its the idea that people can't be responsible for anything, I can't be trusted to make a decision that I do find this meat good enough for me and I accept the small risk it is to buy outside the normal channels. I don't think Italians have the same rigid rules. Same with milk, not allowed to sell raw milk and so on. The industrial food industry doesn't like small and local sales...

 

[ultrarunner]

There are workarounds as creative as the mind is.

The raw milk is one of controversy.

My dairy farm side of the family always raw milk…

Many in their community also raw but regulations prohibit selling or giving.

Farm changed its business model and for a fee provided full board and care including milking for customer owned cows.

So the farmer no longer sells or gives away raw milk… the milk is the property of the cows owner and the farmer no longer owns the cow…

 

[Agvg]

Yes, that's one method, here you can buy the animal before slaughter and then pay for the slaughter and processing of the meat but it should be much easier, but it's not difficult to understand the reason for the regulations but I as an individual should be able to take the risk, no problem if I had to sign a paper or something and personal take the responsibility for the quality of the food.

I have been part of pig slaughter in the old fashion way and I have no problems understanding that slaughtering an animal in the farm yard in the summer is a very different process Vs a production line, but still it should be my choice. Do you have mobile slaughter services in the US?

 

[Hay Dude]

I've been reading about Caterpillar and Deere not wanting to share their diagnostics tools. It hasn't been an issue for my tractor purchases. But, I have encountered it in vehicles. Not just a single ECU, but a dozen of them, and not all vehicle OBDII readers will interact with all the ECUs, or be able to clear fault codes.

Or, while the OBDII plug is fairly universal in the car world today, the fault codes are not. I've got one that I don't believe any off the shelf OBDII reader will give me any useful information.

I can't say how Fendt is approaching this issue.

With all the computer screens on modern vehicles, I'd think they could simply send the diagnostics, and perhaps repair details directly to one of the onboard screens. Yet, at least in the automotive world, they like to simply flash a "Check Engine" light, and let the owner figure out the rest. I've had a no start condition due to an electronics failure on my RAM (two different ECUs weren't communicating properly), and I've been driving down the freeway when it threw it into limp mode without warning. Low enough power that I had to put it into 4WD Low just to get to a safe parking spot.


I can't say about industrial controls. With consumer electronics, if you have a 20 year old computer, and it still works, then it won't play nice with the modern internet and other programs. My former company liked Windows NT which didn't play nice with the now ubiquitous USB, although there may be some 3rd party drivers out now.

If you have a 20 year old cell phone, you'll have troubles finding new batteries for it, and most new applications won't work on it. If you're unlucky enough to have an "analog" cell phone, the cell providers won't allow it to connect to their networks. I've had issues with ATT merging with Cingular, then locking their own ATT phones off of their network.

So, if your 20 year old industrial controls still work, perhaps they're OK. You may not get modern updates, but if they're OK today, then perhaps they'll be sufficient for the job in the future. But blow a screen, and you may be scrambling as the whole tractor may not be able to simply bypass the broken part.

Then, there is also scale. Anybody with an older piece of farm equipment from a lesser brand knows that one may be on one's own for repairs, quite literally. Break an axle or a gear, and you're off to the local machine shop to make a new one. Even if the brand still exists, they may simply say "sorry".

So the video indicated that there were literally 3 tractors similar to the video demo in the USA. Presumably more coming. But, a few thousand, and nobody will actually care about keeping them running in the future.

With computers you have hardware and software. A screen on the Fendt may look like a $50 Amazon Kindle, but the Kindle won't run your tractor without both the hardware interface to the tractor, as well as the software to run the interface.

As much as I have been around Fendt, I’d say your “concerns” are baseless.

 

[rScotty]

We have a constant influx of workers from the south. But, that has also become a political hot potato around here.

One thing we're seeing is the industrialization of farms. So the little 50 acre farms are vanishing quickly. Some being bought up by corporations. Some being converted to house lots.

It isn't the small plot farms that are going out and buying $100K to $1M tractors and combines.

We were just down in south eastern Arizona last month - doing some RV travel and getting away from winter in the Rockies.
Out in the middle of nowhere special, we found ourselves in the largest hay growing operation that I've ever seen. Whole valleys are being farmed and small towns are factory housing.
Years ago, I worked for a custom harvester on some big spreads from Kansas to North Dakota, but what we saw in SE Arizona dwarfs that.
The Arizona hay growing operation is many times larger. It is spray wheel irrigated, different hay crops in rotation, all cut green, sun dried, and put up in immense round bales with rubber covers. Given the climate & unlimited water means they can run multiple hay crops all year long.
They use almost exclusively JD tracked equipment.
rScotty