Independent Pto and use of external ORC

[JC-jetro]

Here's what I think about it:

Disadvantages:

1) $60, time, effort.

2) may add drive line slop. May create need to trim drive line shorter.

3) makes the brake you are attempting to protect a worthless piece of optional equipment on your tractor since if cannot brake anything with the ORC is on, and worrying about fixing the brake (if broken) is an odd worry considering you are making is irrelevant by adding the ORC.

4) the brake in many cases is to defeat the viscous coupling of clutch pack driven independent PTO's so it will not turn when not engaged. You may see that problem happen if the brake goes bad, but it doesn't mean it will actually kill you. A man would have to decide whether he thought it was engaged or just loafing, I suppose. I'd just turn the tractor off if I saw that, since a hydraulic controlled PTO is already more than "simple" design, and could turn on at any point due to malfunction of any type.

Advantages:
1)brake does not wear due to simulating having no brake.

Thanks for the great response. I'd only entertain using ORC is for rotary cutter and mainly due to the way mushroom button works. I don't think the brake will have premature failure to engage at low rpm when the pto is turned off by the operator. I do see the safety aspect of quick PTO stoppage.

JC,

 

[Soundguy]

you are forgetting 2 issues.

the 60$ / time / effort?

big deal. takes more than 20$ of fuel every time I fire the tractor up to mow... and the 60$ deal is a 1 time cost.. not many things on my tractor cost less than 60$ to fix.

own a machine.. expect to pay to maintain it. simple fact of life. the bigger the amchine.. the more $$ it eats.

time? to attach or remove the orc? are you kidding me? I spend an hour greasing the tractor and lubing and fueling it after working her. 5 minutes more is an issue? and if it takes you more than 5 minutes on a pin on type.. or 30 seconds on a qc type.. you need more practivce.. or are doing it wrong.

Now.. 2nd part.

application.

if I am mowing all interior pasture with nothing around but trees and open fields. I could care less about my pto spinning down slowly on an orc.

if I am mowing road ROW or around other things where I will have animal or people onbstacles as 'targets' to deal with.. the orc comes off so i can utilize that brake I have saved during pasture mowing by not wearing the snot out of it needlessly.

thus. save the brake for when it's needed..

kind of like blowign the candle out while the lamp is on.. save the candle for when the lamp is off. etc.

soundguy

Here's what I think about it:

Disadvantages:

1) $60, time, effort.

2) may add drive line slop. May create need to trim drive line shorter.

3) makes the brake you are attempting to protect a worthless piece of optional equipment on your tractor since if cannot brake anything with the ORC is on, and worrying about fixing the brake (if broken) is an odd worry considering you are making is irrelevant by adding the ORC.

4) the brake in many cases is to defeat the viscous coupling of clutch pack driven independent PTO's so it will not turn when not engaged. You may see that problem happen if the brake goes bad, but it doesn't mean it will actually kill you. A man would have to decide whether he thought it was engaged or just loafing, I suppose. I'd just turn the tractor off if I saw that, since a hydraulic controlled PTO is already more than "simple" design, and could turn on at any point due to malfunction of any type.

Advantages:
1)brake does not wear due to simulating having no brake.

 

[jinman]

I agree with EE_Bota. I think the safety factor of having a brake on my PTO is really significant. After having both, I've come to really appreciate the brake stopping the cutter in a couple of seconds. There are those who would brag about how fast they can change a ORC on a PTO stub, but complain about having to turn their cutters PTO driveline a few degrees to hook up to the PTO stub as if that were some big deal.:confused2: After doing that for over 10 years on my current tractor, I can say it's a non-issue. The most I've ever had to do is raise an implement a few inches with the 3PH before hooking up. My cutter sits flat on the ground and still can have the PTO shaft easily turned. If I needed more leverage, a big screwdriver through the U-joint would do the trick. My only implement that has to be raised before hooking up the PTO is my tiller. It turns easily once lifted a little.

I also think the PTO button vs lever is something that is more argument than a real problem. I've had my fender mounted lever pushed to the disengage position by tree limbs on several occasions. Having a lever is not all that great if it is mounted where trees can get to it. Having a small lever on the side of the transmission case like the old Fords was a lot less likely to be disengaged by brush, but I'm not ready to give up my fully independent PTO for that. I think the button will be fine and the one or two times brush pushes it down will be the extreme rather than the norm.

 

[TripleR]

I also think the PTO button vs lever is something that is more argument than a real problem. I've had my fender mounted lever pushed to the disengage position by tree limbs on several occasions. Having a lever is not all that great if it is mounted where trees can get to it. Having a small lever on the side of the transmission case like the old Fords was a lot less likely to be disengaged by brush, but I'm not ready to give up my fully independent PTO for that. I think the button will be fine and the one or two times brush pushes it down will be the extreme rather than the norm.

No real disagreement there, I just don't like it. I may get use to it, but doubt I will ever like it. I prefer to slowly engage my PTO. I didn't have to give up my fully independent PTO on our M8540 to have a lever activated PTO.

I sure know what you mean about the old Fords, we have three of them. On our NAA, my brother modified the lever to make it easier for me to use.

I only run cab tractors now except rarely, so brush knocking the PTO "OFF" isn't a concern, hitting it with my elbow or something might though; haven't used mine yet. Those on our John Deeres are on the dash.

 

[JC-jetro]

Excellent exchange of opinions here guys, I certainly appreciate it. The thing is everyone has good ideas and it comes from understanding the capabilities of machine and some shortcomings. Once that is understood the rest not very difficult. I know people had issues damaging their Kubota pto drive (coupling/ ORC) by having a lever that was totally mechanical. The lever actually pulled and aviation type cable to engage a live pto. Due to maladjustment even with the lever fully engaged failed to mesh the coupling properly causing for it to jump out and destroy the mechanism. On some other model the same lever is actually attached to a switch that turn the pto solenoid on so all you have is either "on" or "off". So lever by it self does not mean bad or good. In my simple Ford 1700 lever is directly coupled to release fork and not much of adjustment along with the detent mechanism. simple and hardly anything can go wrong with that.

Just FYI, in the particular rig that I'm investigating this the tractor needs to be split at the diffy to have access to pto clutch and brake. No way to have access to it from outside of the tractor and short final pto shaft withdrawn from the rear end of the tractor. That's major work and make $60 ORC to look very attractive for mowing application.

JC,

 

[TripleR]

Excellent exchange of opinions here guys, I certainly appreciate it. The thing is everyone has good ideas and it comes from understanding the capabilities of machine and some shortcomings. Once that is understood the rest not very difficult. I know people had issues damaging their Kubota pto drive (coupling/ ORC) by having a lever that was totally mechanical. The lever actually pulled and aviation type cable to engage a live pto. Due to maladjustment even with the lever fully engaged failed to mesh the coupling properly causing for it to jump out and destroy the mechanism. On some other model the same lever is actually attached to a switch that turn the pto solenoid on so all you have is either "on" or "off". So lever by it self does not mean bad or good. In my simple Ford 1700 lever is directly coupled to release fork and not much of adjustment along with the detent mechanism. simple and hardly anything can go wrong with that.

Just FYI, in the particular rig that I'm investigating this the tractor needs to be split at the diffy to have access to pto clutch and brake. No way to have access to it from outside of the tractor and short final pto shaft withdrawn from the rear end of the tractor. That's major work and make $60 ORC to look very attractive for mowing application.

JC,

Well, see here is the "problem" you get into using facts and logic while I am using personal preferences. Forget "how it works", build a platform over the "button", install a lever to operate the button and just don't tell me and I'll be a happy guy.:laughing:

 

[JC-jetro]

Well, see here is the "problem" you get into using facts and logic while I am using personal preferences. Forget "how it works", build a platform over the "button", install a lever to operate the button and just don't tell me and I'll be a happy guy.:laughing:

Yes Sir By the way , that how the pto mechanism look like on this Kubota. Getting to brake is doable but not very easy or something I want to do anytime soon.

JC,

# 8 is the pto brake.

 

[Soundguy]

i CAN screwdriver over my batwing. but it sure is a bear with the wings folded and the u joints at hard angles..

 

[Soundguy]

There are those who would brag about how fast they can change a ORC on a PTO stub, but complain about having to turn their cutters PTO driveline a few degrees to hook up to the PTO stub as if that were some big deal.:confused2: .

i remember saying that it's easy to change a pto stub orc.. but don't recall saying the other?

IMHO.. if someone gets to list changing the pto orc as a difficulty.. others should also be able to say that it's not a hard job to do? right?

nost of the itme if I see a pto shaft / yoke that is a difficult hookup.. it's because of dirty splines or rusty splined that don't slide easilly.... keeping them cleaned and maintained will mitigate that. proper pto shaft length will help too. a shaft too long can push on the orc and cause binding and bending if the pin in the pin on style..

I tell ya what would be ideal. optional pto brake. IE.. have a lever you can engage to bypass the pto brake.. thus you can choose to use it or not in each situation.. now that would be the ticket!

soundguy

 

[Jerry/MT]

The reason I use the ORC is to save wear and tear on pto brake when I use an implement with a high rotational inertia. If the PTO brake wears out, it's my understanding it's a big deal to replace it. Soundguy uses a 10 foot batwing and that has a lot more inertia so he's needs it even more that my unit with a 6 ft cutter. That brake never saved me from hitting anything. If I hit something it was because it was unseen. If I'd have seen it, I wouldn't have hit it.