Injector Timing Pump Question

[bluechip]

F100 has a good point, you want to have a good diesel rattle at idle, it should not be quiet at idle. If it is too advanced you will get a hard knocking at higher rpm. Best to check the static method one more time and see where the mark is when the fuel begins to rise in no 1 before you decide which way to tweak it.

 

[GRUMPA]

I wonder if this same procedure could be used on my kama 354c. If it can I think I'll copy (print out ) the post.

 

[SevenCorners]

F100 the same thing happened after the second time I thought the timing was correct. I went up a hill in low second and it would not pull it. The engine sounded really good, no smoke, quite... just no power. I advanced the timing a couple of more times but as I said before I don't think it is just right. I have a little too much smoke at idle, engine is running hot, valves don't sound too bad. I will probably ****** the timing just a little bit. Something that really bugs me about adjusting the timing is there is no way to see how much you are adjusting it. It is not exact like a gas engine. Shoot a timing light move the distributor till marks line up and your spot on.... With this engine I have adjusted and readjusted 10, 15 20 times......

 

[bluechip]

Grumpa,
Yes, the proceudure is the same on the TS series KAMAs

 

[Harrygoodwrench]

Seven Corners, they do make meters to test diesel timing but the are big bucks. They mostly use a clamp on pulse probe that clamps on to the #1 injector line and senses the pulse, with a glued on sensor on the crank pulley it can give the injection timing on the meter. There are some that use a photo-voltic cell that goes in place of glow plug also, pricey equipment anyways.
I'm reasonably sure you can use the 3 mounting bolts to fine tune the timing. I suggest taking a chisel/punch and making reference marks on the pump mounting face and front cover. This way you can know which way and how far abouts you went. Looking at my pic of the front gear train(which is too big to post) if you rotate the top of pump inwards toward the engine thats advancing timing. Away would be retarding.
Like I said the mark will give you a reference point where you now have it and you can just move a little at a time and go opposite direction if performance declines. Keep us informed.

 

[SevenCorners]

Harry,
Thanks I took your advice on the punch. I tried three settings this afternoon and all seem slightly off. When I first started it up this morning it took longer than normal say 15 seconds of starter. So I figure I am too far advanced. I take off the cover, punch the pulley for my mark, remove the #1 fitting and turn pulley till fuel just begins to well. It looked like 22 on gauge it is so tight in there I wish there were more room. Anyway I retarded timing to what I thought was 16, started it and it ran like a champ, hah I said I got it. Not so fast, I did not bolt it up having learned lesson yesterday. I took it down to the bottom of the hill and tried to pull up hill in 2nd, no power and all kinds of knocking it was not happy. I got to the top and rechecked timing I have messed up the 3 washers because when I rechecked it looked like 10 instead of 16. They must have moved. I redid and set it back to 16-18... started and idled fine although a little on quite side and still running hot. Once it thoughtlythoughtthoughthoughtsthoughtlessthroughthoughtfulthoughtlesslythoughtlessnessthouthoughtfullythighthoughtfulnessthongtheurgistbrought warmed up I tried to give it gas and it really refused, well you guessed it too much retarded, the bolts are slipping once gear/engine gets warm. I am going to get some new washers tomorrow. I gave up and will hit it again tomorrow. Cheap Chinese steel!!!

 

[Harrygoodwrench]

I also heard about those "cheapo" washers too. I don't know why "prevailing torque" nuts would not work. I think they would be "cats A$$" the type with a flat washer part of the nut(metric of course). Bet I have dozens of them around but never the exact size ya need at the time and then a month later find a whole bunch of them. LOL.
Stick with it and persevere, All I can say is if ya get yours set up like mine (which I haven't had to touch)(knock on wood) she will start and run like a real "beast". The things I do with mine are what you would think a 30 hp unit would be the minimum, but there is a limit. Scared myself a few times take my word. Kinda like the "little train that could" push, push and then the trouble happens. I've developed a "sense" on when to back off. Don't want to damage it or get hurt but it can be done all to easy.
The "overheating" or running hotter. Do you suppose the thermostat decided to just crap out? Stranger things have happened. Old timer saying (which I'm one of em) if ya take thermostat out of coolant it will likely fail . Never believed it myself with 30 years mechanic experience but some say its true. Who am I to argue.

 

[greg_g]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Seven Corners, they do make meters to test diesel timing but the are big bucks. )</font>
Harbor Freight has THIS one on sale right now for eighty bucks.

My Mercedes pump is timed with the drip method. The flywheel is set for 24 BTDC, then this $25

drip tool is installed in place of the #1 hard line. The engine is then cranked, and the injection pump rotated, till the drip tool is dropping 1 drip per second. Amazing how simple some of the hardest jobs end up to be.

//greg//

 

[Harrygoodwrench]

Deju vu............I remember using the same method on Mack truck engines 25+ years ago. ****, so long ago except if I remember (which I don't always) it was 8 drops per second or so, called the drop/drip method with the gooseneck line on #1 injector line.
Some things change, some things don't. It worked so why not? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[F100Panel]

Hey guys.. I saw the last post for the drip timming tool.. That may well be an answer but $80 for a 1 time use thing is a tough bullet to bite though likely a LOT cheaper than having it done at a shop... I can transport my machine most can't now that I think of it & $80 is cheaper than the cost of hauling... Butt..... When I had my tractor running good/could feel the cylinders beating in my feet like HarryG's tractor I had set the static timming ( watch the fuel rise in the oil line cavity method ) to 22 degrees BTDC. THAT made me uncomfortable. Static setting it at 18 degres BTDC is giving me all the symptoms of being retarded NO NOT ME!!! The tractor!!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif I suggest static timming to 18 degrees BTDC ( lets be realistic static timing ain't gonna give the same results at 1800rpm.. Then theres the human factor of the eye looking for fuel to move up in the line well/something thats gotta be different at 1800rpm...) & using that as a starting tool & then get the tractor warmed up & while runing rotate the pump assembly a little till she sounds proper may well be the best low buck cure.. I likely won't get to it for some time/my scheduale is overwhelming for the next several months/likely won't even run the tractor except to move it out of the way... But I'm fishing for opinions on my theory ( if I was sure of myself I would not be posting this /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif )or if anyone tries the theory out what THEY think of how it turned out... The more I think on this maybe the static timming start point ought to be 22 degrees BTDC?????????? I maye go back & try that...