Injector trouble

[gemini5362]

Dennis try doing a couple of things.

1. As much as I hate to say it since you got it started with SF use it again to get it started. Let it run for a half hour or so. Before you turn it off. I believe that eventually it will get the air out of the injectors (unless there is a leak) just from running. (Mopacman is that right ?) Make sure that the crankcase is up to the full mark on the dipstick with oil. Watch to make sure it dont overheat.

2. Pull the dipstick out while it is running and see if it throws oil out of the dipstick tube. If it has a cracked ring or a valve sticking etc then it should throw oil out of that tube.

 

[dqdave1]

Check glow plugs; make sure they are working. Be careful bleeeding injectors while running; a lot of pressure and can hurt skin quickly. Injector probably leaking causing low compression reading. Take them to a dealer and have them checked.

 

[mopacman]

I dont claim to be a diesel machanic. I am an electrician that has worked on diesel equipment beside a mechanic for 40 years. I do maintain 5 diesel farm tractors and my 5 diesel trucks. Dennis I think it would run with those compression readings and you could get a lot good out of it. Those low readings could make it hard to start. I think gemini is right. Run it 30 min. or more to get it up to run tempture then see if it will start. I think testing your injectors is a good idea. You can not have any fuel leaks this will keep the injector from fireing right or not at all. I would run it several hours to get every thing working good and then test the compression if you want to. You need to have a glow plug indicator this cuts the battery voltage from 12 volts to 10.5 which the glow plugs should have. 12 volts will shorten their life. A bad injector can let compression back into the fuel line this could be a cause of air bubbles. If you have a fuel leak between the tank and the pump when it is dead could let air into the system when it is running.
Larry

 

[RobJ]

I have to use ether to start it and keep it running till the fuel takes over.

Ouch! I used to work on diesels and don't advise keeping it running on ether. This is sort of like adding motor oil every hour or 2 to an engine. It may keep it running but it means there are other problems inside.

good Luck,
Rob

 

[mopacman]

Rob I agree with you. When I say keep it running I think 20 sec. is getting to be to long. When you have to do this something is wrong with the system but when you get it running the bugs go away alot of times.
Larry

 

[john_bud]

I would throw a couple table spoons of ATF into each cylinder and let that sit for a while. The ATF will help lubricate the rings and ring lands, hopefully unsticking any stuck rings. Your low compression may be from some rings not sealing. They may be carbon stuck in place. After sitting for a day, recheck the compression.

While mopacman advocates the use of ether, I strongly don't. Yes, several manufacturors did have ether injectors on their tractors from the factory. BUT, they used an exactly metered amount of ether. Not a hand guaged spray. A lot of damage can occur in under 1 second while using ether. Your compression readings may be an indication of such damage. I would much rather see a tractor towed along at 10-15 mph to spin the motor over and get it working than the use of ether. Other folks have different experiences and may feel other wise. That's ok by me.


When you take your injectors to be checked, have them verify good spray pattern, and correct pop-off pressure and leak rate.

Pop off should be around 2000-2100 psi.
The injectors should hold about 1850 psi for 10 seconds without leaking. Any more than a spot the size of a dime on a paper towel is too much.

You may want to determine the cost of rebuilt injectors before the checks. Sometimes checking and setting at a shop is MORE $$ than just getting rebuilt injectors. Crazy, but often true.


If you are still getting bubbles at the injectors, you may have a leak at a fitting at the tanks up to the pump. Tighten them up and maybe replace the hoses.

good luck!
jb

 

[DennisStahley]

I would throw a couple table spoons of ATF into each cylinder and let that sit for a while. The ATF will help lubricate the rings and ring lands, hopefully unsticking any stuck rings. Your low compression may be from some rings not sealing. They may be carbon stuck in place. After sitting for a day, recheck the compression.

While mopacman advocates the use of ether, I strongly don't. Yes, several manufacturors did have ether injectors on their tractors from the factory. BUT, they used an exactly metered amount of ether. Not a hand guaged spray. A lot of damage can occur in under 1 second while using ether. Your compression readings may be an indication of such damage. I would much rather see a tractor towed along at 10-15 mph to spin the motor over and get it working than the use of ether. Other folks have different experiences and may feel other wise. That's ok by me.


When you take your injectors to be checked, have them verify good spray pattern, and correct pop-off pressure and leak rate.

Pop off should be around 2000-2100 psi.
The injectors should hold about 1850 psi for 10 seconds without leaking. Any more than a spot the size of a dime on a paper towel is too much.

You may want to determine the cost of rebuilt injectors before the checks. Sometimes checking and setting at a shop is MORE $$ than just getting rebuilt injectors. Crazy, but often true.


If you are still getting bubbles at the injectors, you may have a leak at a fitting at the tanks up to the pump. Tighten them up and maybe replace the hoses.

good luck!
jb

Hi John-Bud
Well I went to the Kubota shop and ordered new injectors thay were $60.00 each cheaper than having them rebuilt they wanted on line $65.00 to rebuild them. so they should be in next week sometime so will see if this helps? The tech. at kubota said with the 2 cyl. side by side with that reading could be a head gasket but I am thinking that if the injectors were leaking when I took the comp. reading in the glow plug hole that maybe the comp. was leaking out the injector(IMO) I am going to check it at the injector holes as I have all three injectors out, and with the glow plugs on tight that might tell us more? I cant beleave we got it running. I dont know but if i have to pull the engine out and overhaul it I think I can do it and if nothing is broken(pistons-rod etc.) and I dont think it should be all that expensive, maybe I can get the parts off line or do you think I should buy them from the local Kubota dealer?? I never have overhauled a diesel, have done gas engines but I wouldnt think it would be to bad(haha) I would take it to the machine shop for a valve job and resurface head. Has anyone overhauled a diesel?? If so how was it?? I have the shop manual for it and all the tools I think to do it. But I hope this is not the case that would be nice, just the new injectors and go. Hope/// Well let me know if anyone here has overhauled a diesel and what i shoule expect if I have to do so. And again thanks for all the help you guys sure have been great helping me.

Dennis

 

[gemini5362]

Dennis

Let me do the usual disclaimer that I am not a diesel mechanic and if I say anything that is wrong please correct me because I learn a lot from these posts. That being said.

The low compression to me is not a sign of a problem at this stage of the game. You could have had a ring collapse from sitting so long. Running the engine and getting it back to temperature could fix that problem. I would not have ordered the new injectors for the same reason. In my opinion I would try what I suggested in an earlier post. Get it running keep let it running for a half hour or if you have the patience an hour. Make sure that you are monitoring engine temp. And that it is full of oil. Actually I would probably change the oil also if you have not done that already. After it has run for a while then see if it will start by itself. When you get it running does it have a lot of power. In my limited experience with tractors one way to tell if it has power is to put it in high range and try to take off in the next to the highest or the highest gear. If it takes off and picks up speed easily then you probably have ok compression at least as far as being able to do work. Turn it off and see if it starts without starting fluid if it starts ok then run it some do what fun things you want to do with it turn if off let it sit overnight and see if it will start the next day. I want to reiterate do all this after you have just good old fashioned let it sit and run. A lot of posters have brought up good points. You can have carbon build up. You still might have air in your injectors. Rings are made out of spring steel with an expander under it. These parts will lose tension after they have set in one place for a long time. Valves that have been open for a long time might have some rust or carbon on them that keeps them from closing all the way. Letting it sit and run and get all the components hot and letting them expand might resolve a lot of your problems. If it dont then you can start worrying about what you have to replace. Good luck and let us know how you make out

 

[gemini5362]

I would throw a couple table spoons of ATF into each cylinder and let that sit for a while. The ATF will help lubricate the rings and ring lands, hopefully unsticking any stuck rings. Your low compression may be from some rings not sealing. They may be carbon stuck in place. After sitting for a day, recheck the compression.

While mopacman advocates the use of ether, I strongly don't. Yes, several manufacturors did have ether injectors on their tractors from the factory. BUT, they used an exactly metered amount of ether. Not a hand guaged spray. A lot of damage can occur in under 1 second while using ether. Your compression readings may be an indication of such damage. I would much rather see a tractor towed along at 10-15 mph to spin the motor over and get it working than the use of ether. Other folks have different experiences and may feel other wise. That's ok by me.


When you take your injectors to be checked, have them verify good spray pattern, and correct pop-off pressure and leak rate.

Pop off should be around 2000-2100 psi.
The injectors should hold about 1850 psi for 10 seconds without leaking. Any more than a spot the size of a dime on a paper towel is too much.

You may want to determine the cost of rebuilt injectors before the checks. Sometimes checking and setting at a shop is MORE $$ than just getting rebuilt injectors. Crazy, but often true.


If you are still getting bubbles at the injectors, you may have a leak at a fitting at the tanks up to the pump. Tighten them up and maybe replace the hoses.

good luck!
jb

Good post. I wanted to say something about using ATF but I was not sure that would not hurt anything so I did not mention it. I know you can pour it down a gas engine intake while it is running and help a lot of problems.

I agree with you about the ether. I cannot imagine pulling it around with a truck while the engine is turning over will hurt anything. The only good thing I know of that has happened to me when using either is that I ruined my motor to a point that the wife let me by a new tractor. Now if that is what you are after then ether is a good way to accomplish it.

I did not know you could get injectors for a tractor that cheap. I thought they were very expensive. That is a good thing to know should I ever have a problem.

Thomas

 

[gemini5362]

Hi John-Bud
Well I went to the Kubota shop and ordered new injectors thay were $60.00 each cheaper than having them rebuilt they wanted on line $65.00 to rebuild them. so they should be in next week sometime so will see if this helps? The tech. at kubota said with the 2 cyl. side by side with that reading could be a head gasket but I am thinking that if the injectors were leaking when I took the comp. reading in the glow plug hole that maybe the comp. was leaking out the injector(IMO) I am going to check it at the injector holes as I have all three injectors out, and with the glow plugs on tight that might tell us more? I cant beleave we got it running. I dont know but if i have to pull the engine out and overhaul it I think I can do it and if nothing is broken(pistons-rod etc.) and I dont think it should be all that expensive, maybe I can get the parts off line or do you think I should buy them from the local Kubota dealer?? I never have overhauled a diesel, have done gas engines but I wouldnt think it would be to bad(haha) I would take it to the machine shop for a valve job and resurface head. Has anyone overhauled a diesel?? If so how was it?? I have the shop manual for it and all the tools I think to do it. But I hope this is not the case that would be nice, just the new injectors and go. Hope/// Well let me know if anyone here has overhauled a diesel and what i shoule expect if I have to do so. And again thanks for all the help you guys sure have been great helping me.

Dennis

Dennis you said you have a shop manual. Is that a sleeved engine ?