Installing 3rd Function Hydraulics - Electric over Hydaulic

   / Installing 3rd Function Hydraulics - Electric over Hydaulic #61  
It becomes a problem when you are using multiple valves in series without a power beyond circuit, (which the solenoid valves we are talking about do not have). You must have a relief valve in an open system. I believe most 3rd function valve add ons without their own relief rely on the relief in the loader valve. I know that is how my JD 3520 works.
 
   / Installing 3rd Function Hydraulics - Electric over Hydaulic #63  
Relief valve should not be a big problem anyway as you can add an external relief valve anywhere.[/QUOTE said:
Not just anywhere, In an open system, it must be upstream of the valve.
 
   / Installing 3rd Function Hydraulics - Electric over Hydaulic #64  
But of course.

Just about all valves in an open center hyd system will have a relief valve, and the 3rd function valves and manifold valves can have a relief valve, and it is before any solenoid valve.

Closed center valves do not need a relief valve as the relief valve is located close by the pump, and each valve in the parrallel hyd path could be the first valve.
 
   / Installing 3rd Function Hydraulics - Electric over Hydaulic #65  
cowboy_79_1999

It becomes a problem when you are using multiple valves in series without a power beyond circuit, (which the solenoid valves we are talking about do not have).

Just about all subplates can handle about 3000 to 5000 psi, and are considered PB.

Although they call the T port a tank port, it also feeds the fluid to the next valve.

A subplate will have 4 hose ports, P,T,A,B.

It could also have a relief port and a hyd gage port.
 
   / Installing 3rd Function Hydraulics - Electric over Hydaulic #66  
JJ, I'm not trying to be argumentative on this subject, I'm simply trying to offer my knowledge gained on this very subject while researching adding a solenoid valve to my own compact tractor.

That being said, I must disagree with you that these valve bases are considered pb. On an open center system, Open or tandem center solenoid valves must be used to allow "pump" flow to the tank port when the valve is in the neutral position. To my knowledge this is not true power beyond. Motor valves in neutral position, block the p port and connect a,b,t to allow a motor wind down. Blocking p will load the pump until the relief kicks in as well as blocking flow to downstream valves i.e. 3pt hitch, so they should not be used in this application. Multiple valves must be plumbed in series and series bases are available, but my original point is that each solenoid valve added will reduce flow to, and cause a pressure drop to the next valve in the series since the oil must flow through each valve before traveling to the next. There will also be a flow restriction and pressure drop associated with the base itself. On relatively small hydraulic systems found on our compact tractors that were not originally engineered for solenoid valves, these losses could add up quick and reduce the lift capability and speed of each successive valve and ultimately the 3pt hitch. Flow restrictions also create additional heat which could cause more problems on smaller systems that may not have sufficient oil cooling.

I'm confident that for my system, adding one tandem center solenoid valve will not cause any significant problems, as others have successfully added 3rd function solenoid valves on their tractors with no problems. I had considered adding 3 valves until I did some research and asked a local hydraulic shop their thoughts. I've concluded that I'm better off with one solenoid valve and possibly adding a diverter valve to split the function to 3rd and 4th QD pairs.
 
   / Installing 3rd Function Hydraulics - Electric over Hydaulic #67  
For the sake of argument, I hope you don't believe everything you said in your post.

You said, [ block the p port ] You do not ever block the P port using an OC hyd system.

The T port is not really a tank port unless the valve assembly is used as the last valve in the system before the tank.

When the the solenoid assembly including subplate is in neutral, whether it is a cyl valve or a motor valve, the fluid is flowing from P to T. Most definitely a PB port of at least 3000 psi.

You do not stop the flow in an open center hyd system, as the fluid is moving all the time either going to a hyd component or flowing to the next valve.

PB is just the ability to handle high pressure.

There is not a significant pressure loss by connecting valves in series. It is done all the time.

When the valve is activated, fluid is redirected to the A and B ports, the used fluid is flowing out through the T port. Same goes for the hyd motor, as you push fluid through the IN port of the hyd motor, the motor is expelling fluid through the T port. This fluid is going to the next valve.

A lever hyd valve has a dedicated low pressure port for the expended fluid. T port..

If you still think I am wrong, then so be it.
 
   / Installing 3rd Function Hydraulics - Electric over Hydaulic #68  
Ok, since I have 5 min for the sake of argument.

For the sake of argument, I hope you don't believe everything you said in your post.

I do in fact believe everything I said in my post.

You said, [ block the p port ] You do not ever block the P port using an OC hyd system.

Just as I said: "Blocking p will load the pump until the relief kicks in as well as blocking flow to downstream valves i.e. 3pt hitch, so they should not be used in this application."

The T port is not really a tank port unless the valve assembly is used as the last valve in the system before the tank.

It is also not necessarily a PB port .

When the the solenoid assembly including subplate is in neutral, whether it is a cyl valve or a motor valve, the fluid is flowing from P to T. Most definitely a PB port of at least 3000 psi.

Many solenoid valves have a T port that in fact is NOT rated for full system pressure

You do not stop the flow in an open center hyd system, as the fluid is moving all the time either going to a hyd component or flowing to the next valve.

Agreed!

PB is just the ability to handle high pressure.

I think we disagree on the definition of Power Beyond. So be it.

There is not a significant pressure loss by connecting valves in series. It is done all the time.

There is always some pressure and flow loss with anything added to an open hydraulic system because everything is in series. This includes hoses/fittings/valves/etc. Hydraulic pumps are generally sized for the required gpm and pressure to the last valve in the system after accounting for all losses, and therefore adding something in between will in some way reduce the supply downstream. Granted that most systems can probably handle some additions, as they may not be "significant," but I would encourage folks to do the research before adding to the factory hydraulic system on a CUT. Especially with multiple solenoid valves as they can vary greatly in their gpm and pressure capability.

When the valve is activated, fluid is redirected to the A and B ports, the used fluid is flowing out through the T port. Same goes for the hyd motor, as you push fluid through the IN port of the hyd motor, the motor is expelling fluid through the T port. This fluid is going to the next valve.

Agreed. And now this fluid is "used" and in fact is not Power Beyond.

A lever hyd valve has a dedicated low pressure port for the expended fluid. T port..

True for most, but not all.

If you still think I am wrong, then so be it.

Honestly, Its not that I'm trying to prove you wrong, but some of your points can be misleading. For example your advice to Kevincook, to "Just go to Surplus and choose your valves, and a sub plate that will accommodate the number of valves you want." This could lead someone to purchase a parallel multiple valve sub plate with open center valves and motor spool valves. When in fact he would need a series sub plate with tandem center valves to accomplish his goals.

I encourage anyone attempting to DIY additional hydraulics on their CUT's to do plenty of research and if need be seek the advice of a professional hydraulic shop or even your local tractor dealer before starting. My local shop was very helpful in guiding my decision to add a single Electric over Hydraulic valve on my tractor.

Good day,
 
   / Installing 3rd Function Hydraulics - Electric over Hydaulic #69  
What would you do with all the 3rd functions multi-valves on all those tractor, and other machinery, recall them for modification based on what someone told you.

Would you even know which subplates were series, parallel, or series-parallel?

In using the subplates, do you even know which ones to use, and which valves to install in position 1,2,3.

Do you know which position on the subplate has priority?

Do you know how many valves can be operated at the same time on a 3 valve subplate? Maybe your expert at the hyd shop you visited will know.

Would you really fix something not broke.

Keep on thinking about the pressure losses caused by all those elbows, reducers, hoses, ports not matched up to specs if you think it will help you.

Critique me if you will, I don't mind being wrong.

My suggestions and recommendations are just that, offered without any return.

I would like to think I am correct in my thinking, but fill free to poke and jab.

If you don't like things I say or I offend your intelligence, just put me on your ignore list.
 
   / Installing 3rd Function Hydraulics - Electric over Hydaulic #70  
I appreciate all your help J.J. Thank you for being there for me and others.
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

2019 FORD F-350 SERVICE TRUCK(INOPERABLE) (A47001)
2019 FORD F-350...
PENDING SELLER CONFIRMATIONS ON SOME LOT #'S (A45676)
PENDING SELLER...
2007 MACK CHN613 (A45333)
2007 MACK CHN613...
2023 HELI CPYD25C FORKLIFT (A47001)
2023 HELI CPYD25C...
ROLLING A-FRAME (A47001)
ROLLING A-FRAME...
2011 FORD F-250 SUPER DUTY (A47001)
2011 FORD F-250...
 
Top