Installing 3rd Function Hydraulics - Electric over Hydaulic

[MinnesotaEric]

Some people don't understand the flow path and GPM's when trying to use more than one spool or valve at the same time.

On a tractor, it is rare that you need to use more than one spool or valve at the same time. A few seconds will not destroy your operation when selecting different spools or valves. .

Even the guys at WR Long do not understand the flow through the 3rd function. What they say is that when using total flow to the cyl, that there is flow from the PB port going through the 3rd function. There is no flow to the PB when full cyl flow is being used. When the relief is activated, the flow is also diverted to tank.

I am not sure he realizes that if all pump flow is going into a cyl, there is flow coming out the cyl, but, it is going to tank, and nothing goes downstream until you let off the lever, and then the pump flow now passes through the PB port for downstream use.

It doesn't take but a few seconds to fill a cyl and you are ready for the next spool operation.

When using a solenoid valve with subplate, all flow exits the T port including the cyl flow and pump flow.

Downstream valves, when fully activated, will affect all valves up stream by the back pressure generated, as that fluid is competing with the pump flow.

If you could use all spools in parallel, what would happen would be that the hyd component requiring the least pressure would operate first and when that component is satisfied, the next hyd component will operate. If more that one hyd component is equal, then the flow will divide.

Loader valves with a parrallel setup can use two spools at the same time, and the flow is divided.

If you half loader spool, you can also use the 3rd function at the same time, such as loader lift and grapple.

JJ I want to be certain I've understood you correctly.

In my case I have a Kioti NX6010 which is open center. Coming off of the joystick I have a tank hose that goes to my tank and I have power beyond. If I've understood you correctly, I do not want to T into power beyond as a parallel, I want to tap into the power beyond in series using an open center valve like the 9-6136. From the joystick into the P on the sub plate and from the T on the sub plate to the (formerly same hose) that in my case is chasing off to spool valve for the rear remote, thus make a series circuit without tapping into the tank line whatsoever.

Is the series circuit I've described above, correct? Originally, I had thought I'd tap into power beyond in parallel with a T fitting, go through the sub plate and closed center valve and then tap a T into the tank hose to return extra fluid.

If series circuit is right, with the open center valve like the 9-6136, which sub plate do I want to use? In other words, with an open center valve, do I also need the open center DO3 sub plate like the 9-5883-1?

Or, because the DO3 subplate like the 9-5883-1 is open center (this flowing fluid to the spools and rear 3PT before dumping into the tank), should I not use an open center valve and use a close center valve like the 9-6138?

Thanks, JJ.

 

[J_J]

If your tractor is open center, you do not want anything CC.

Everything else you said is correct.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

If your tractor is open center, you do not want anything CC.

Everything else you said is correct.

I want to use and open center sub plate with an open center valve?

Or

Do i want to use an open center sub plate with a closed center valve?

 

[J_J]

Use open center valve and open center subplate.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Use open center valve and open center subplate.

Thanks, JJ.

Now all I need to do is find an open center three position spring centered valve that is open center and flows more than 10.5gpm and an open center sub plate than can take the equivalent of 3/8 or 1/2" fittings. The application flows 17.9 gpm and I don't think i should restrict the flow between the power beyond on the joystick and the three point.

 

[J_J]

How about this DO5 valve. You will need a DO5 subplate also.

http://www.baileynet.com/product/9269

Chief D05 (3 Position Spring Center Tandem)

 

[matoyan]

Is your tractor open center hyd?

Do you have any hyd at the back now except for the 3pt?

Do you have a hose going to the back for the 3pt?

You could add a remote to the back with PB and use the PB from the remote valve to power the BH

It might be as simple as adding the valve in series with the 3rd function valve and putting a QD on the remote valve PB line. Your BH would then plug into the PB QD.

When not using the BH, the QD would connect to the 3pt.

Show some pictures of the right side and back side.

The JD750 is open center and I do not have any hydraulics in the back. I included some pictures. So the easiest thing is to add a QD and then loop it when I don't have the BH connected. I don't need any special remote valves or splitters or anything like that?

 

[cgrobar]

Im looking to add a DIY 3rd function valve to my kubota L39. Could you let me know what solenoid valve and base you used?
Thanks Chris

 

[cgrobar]

J_J can you give me some advice on what solenoid valves and sub base I need to build my own DIY 3rd function valve on my Kubota L39? Just read a few of your posts and it looks like you have good knowledge on this. I am a Electrical / Hvac contractor so I don't see a problem for me to tackle this because I am Mechanical minded, but just want to get the correct parts.

Thanks for you time. Chris

 

[J_J]

What is the pump flow on the L39?

 

[cgrobar]

What is the pump flow on the L39?

13 GPM

 

[cgrobar]

13 GPM

Actually I just looked it up and the flows are as follows
Re: L39 Front & Rear Hydraulic Power
There are three pumps making up the 23.4 gpm, one specifically for the power steering @ 6gpm, one specifically for the rear BH swivel @ 6gpm, and one for the main FEL circuits pump and all other attached remotes @ 11.4 gpm.

Looks like 11.4 GPM where the 3rd function ties in.

 

[J_J]

CHIEF Solenoid Operated Directional Control Valves

http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/D03...mctr=(not provided)&__utmv=-&__utmk=204070544

Northman Fluid Power Hydraulic Directional Control Valve – 26.4 GPM, 4500 PSI, 3-Position, Double Solenoid, Tandem Center Spool, 12 Volt DC Solenoids, Model# SWH-G03-C6-D12-10 | Power Solenoid| Northern Tool + Equipment

Northman Fluid Power Single-Station Subplate — NFPA D05 Pattern, 3/8in. NPT Side and Bottom Ports, Model# M03-03-SB-2 | Control Valve Accessories| Northern Tool + Equipment

 

[J_J]

CHIEF Solenoid Operated Directional Control Valves

D03 Subplate Manifolds

Northman Fluid Power Hydraulic Directional Control Valve – 26.4 GPM, 4500 PSI, 3-Position, Double Solenoid, Tandem Center Spool, 12 Volt DC Solenoids, Model# SWH-G03-C6-D12-10 | Power Solenoid| Northern Tool + Equipment

Northman Fluid Power Single-Station Subplate — NFPA D05 Pattern, 3/8in. NPT Side and Bottom Ports, Model# M03-03-SB-2 | Control Valve Accessories| Northern Tool + Equipment

 

[rwcherry]

Does anyone know for sure which valve sub-plate IRSMUN did finally use? It appears to be a D05 sub-plate & valve from the photos. Even though my tractor pump has a low flow rate, all of the tubes to the rear are 1/2" and the grapple I have also has 1/2" quick connects. It might be simpler for the plumbing to just stick with D05, even though flow rate only calls for D03.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Actually I just looked it up and the flows are as follows
Re: L39 Front & Rear Hydraulic Power
There are three pumps making up the 23.4 gpm, one specifically for the power steering @ 6gpm, one specifically for the rear BH swivel @ 6gpm, and one for the main FEL circuits pump and all other attached remotes @ 11.4 gpm.

Looks like 11.4 GPM where the 3rd function ties in.

You want to use a D03 subplate and electric over hydro solenoid.

Whoops, I see J_J is on it.

 

[irsmun]

Does anyone know for sure which valve sub-plate IRSMUN did finally use? It appears to be a D05 sub-plate & valve from the photos. Even though my tractor pump has a low flow rate, all of the tubes to the rear are 1/2" and the grapple I have also has 1/2" quick connects. It might be simpler for the plumbing to just stick with D05, even though flow rate only calls for D03.

D03. I've replaced the EOH solenoid once already but the plumbing is fine. I've been using this set up commercially since this install and it works great.

 

[rwcherry]

D03. I've replaced the EOH solenoid once already but the plumbing is fine. I've been using this set up commercially since this install and it works great.

OK, thanks. I might have to do a little adapting but this is a small tractor (JD 3038E).

 

[wngsprd]

Great thread. I'm getting ready to install a 3rd function and appreciate your time and photo documentation of your install, and JJ's additions. This really helps.

 

[jabelding]

If anyone is looking for a nice handle I just picked up one of these for my project. Not a bad price $150 and you can get it with many options on the switches. Can even get it with a joystick if you want to do proportional valve! Ill post some pictures once i have it mounted.
http://www.suregripcontrols.com/single-post/2017/01/25/AU-Handle