intermitent starting

[scuvnut]

Lone Oak... my long lost tractor in law.

Everything working well over here after one well placed rap on my starter. Not one starting problem since (not counting the one time it would not start and I looked down and I was in gear).

Anyway, figured I'd tell ya things seemed to have straightened out over here.

 

[Hematite]

Hey, thanks for the update, I'm going to try that with the Simplicity. Took three tries before the solenoid would work, today!

 

[Lone Oak Landscaping]

Scuvnut , glad to hear your starting up ok ,thanks for letting us know.

Mike D74T good tip and reminder about clean terminals and tight cables, your right sometimes simple things make chasing electrical problems a nightmare.

Thank you again gang, especially for the laughs as well as good advice. Lone Oak

 

[J_J]

How come you guys keep beating on the solenoids? Just get new ones. You can kick the wife in the but, but she isn't going to get any better.

 

[jinman]

If you haven't removed & cleaned your battery terminals you should. It's the cheapest & easiest electrical troubleshooting there is. Intermittant conductivity is a @#&xe% to figure out and often cured by replacing perfectly good parts solely by virtue of breaking & making the connections. MikeD74T

Mike and two_bit_score: This is really not dirty terminals. I have a sealed lead-acid battery and the terminals are spotless, not a speck of corrosion. When you have dirty terminals, you normally hear a "spat" or click and all power is lost for a fraction of a second or longer. In this instance, the dashlights don't dim at all and there is a distinct "clank-clank" sound of the solenoid trying to engage. It's not a chatter or a buzz.

Of course, it would never hurt to check your terminals, especially after having the tractor set up all winter or during wet weather.

 

[J_J]

Lone Oak Landscaping ,


You can isolate the problem by doing several things. Take a jumper connect to 12v, and touch the starter plus terminal, if the starter turns over every time you touch it, then back up to the solenoid. Touch the jumper cable to the start terminal, and if it tries to start every time you touch the terminal, then you have a harness or switch problem. Electricity flows just fine through a good connected system. It's the metal things that connect wires together that give us trouble. To find a wiring harness or switch problem, connect a meter to the start terminal, and disconnect the plus wire from the starter. This will keep your starter from starting when you are testing. Have someone turn the key to start, and start wiggling the wiring until you find the fault. Whenever the meter registers 12v, you are getting closer to the problem. You may have to open up your harness to expose the wires, but you can re-wrap them . You can test the key switch by touching 12v to the start wire on the switch plug/terminal. A new switch may be needed.

 

[MikeD74T]

Jinman, I was speaking in general, not specific to one person. Old school tractors had different symptoms than current models. Applying power directly to a solenoid is different than sending power through numerous relays, timers, etc. The situation you fixed by rapping the starter is most likely dirty brushholders. Sometimes the hammer is a long term fix, other times not. It's also a great way to ruin a permanent magnet starter !! Just had the starter on my 580CK overhauled cause I was getting solenoid clank but wouldn't turn over. Cause was extremely dirty brushes. My solenoid engages the bendix then applies power to the starter thus the clunk, engaging but not turning. Also battery cables not overheating because of low draw due to dirty brushes. Solenoids that buzz typically don't interface with the solenoid, just route power. Knowing the difference makes a huge difference when troubleshooting.
My point was - just don't overlook the simple stuff. MikeD74T

 

[jinman]

Jinman, I was speaking in general, not specific to one person. Old school tractors had different symptoms than current models. Applying power directly to a solenoid is different than sending power through numerous relays, timers, etc. The situation you fixed by rapping the starter is most likely dirty brushholders. Sometimes the hammer is a long term fix, other times not. It's also a great way to ruin a permanent magnet starter !! Just had the starter on my 580CK overhauled cause I was getting solenoid clank but wouldn't turn over. Cause was extremely dirty brushes. My solenoid engages the bendix then applies power to the starter thus the clunk, engaging but not turning. Also battery cables not overheating because of low draw due to dirty brushes. Solenoids that buzz typically don't interface with the solenoid, just route power. Knowing the difference makes a huge difference when troubleshooting.
My point was - just don't overlook the simple stuff. MikeD74T

All very, very true stuff, Mike. It could be dirty starter motor brushes or it could be the switch contacts of the solenoid are carbonized from arcing. Nobody will know for sure until they disassemble the starter and do a repair. If mine were worse, I'd be doing that myself.

The problem with any intermittent failure is you may do something and think you know the problem because the starter worked, when in fact it may have just started working again on its own. The one thing for sure is that this model starter seems to produce problems at all ages. It can be brand new and it can be on a 1500 hour tractor like mine. That's the issue that is so frustrating and makes us all believe there is something lacking in design. I can't even blame New Holland because 50% of us could have experienced the problem, but we haven't reported it and we can't reproduce it at the dealer's shop. We also know that to pay to have a new version of the same faulty starter installed is just a drain on our bank account and doesn't solve anything. That's why I'll continue to tap on my starter occasionally to get it to work.

 

[scuvnut]

OK. The problem escalated today with my TC40DA. Since I asked about the starting problem, I tapped the starter, and have not had a problem since.

However, today, I used the tractor for a while and parked it on the driveway to do a couple of things. Now, it won't start at all.

I turn the key and nothing happens.

I did the starter thing...nothing.
I ensured that the parking brake is set, in neutral and the PTO is not engaged.

Just for yuks, checked the battery and that is fine.

Any thoughts on how to proceed?

 

[jinman]

Check fuse #2. A quick way to see if fuse #2 is blown without removing your instrument panel is to look for the PTO light ON even though your PTO is not engaged. If that is the case, then fuse #2 is blown for sure. I would replace it with a 10 amp fuse or a self-resetting circuit breaker that is a direct replacement. This is also a common problem that seems to happen in addition to the starter solenoid hanging up.

If the PTO light is ON, remove the two screws on each side of the instrument panel and lift it out. The fuses are below the panel on the left-hand side. Fuse #2 is the 2nd fuse from the left and is probably 8 amps.