Backhoe Internal hydraulics vs. PTO pump to run backhoe

[Soundguy]

Lots of peopl run their ford loader from their rear remotes. And no.. you don't specifically need both remotes.. Presumably you are getting a joystick or multi valve control for this loader? If so, it just needs pressure and return.. IE.. 1 set of remotes.

( Technically you could run the laoder lift/dump off your 2 sets of remotes and no other valves. This is slightly more clumsy.. but works. many -older- fords like I have work like this.. etc.. IE.. dual hyd valve on the lift cover runs the loader.

Soundguy

I had the exact same question for a Ford 6610, so I'm hoping I can just use this thread rather than starting a new one. I just ordered a Bush Hog FEL, my tractor has 2 remotes. I am assuming it will take both remote slots to run the FEL. Not sure if that is correct or not. I am also interested in getting a Backhoe, probably also a Bush Hog BH950, 6-8 GPM. The dealer will get me a PTO pump for about $340 with the back hoe order, so it's not that much more money.

My question, is there any performance difference between tractor hydraulics and a PTO driven system? Anything to beware of? I don't want to have to unhook the FEL hydraulics to use the backhoe if there'a no reason to do so.

Thanks.

 

[bjcsc]

What rbargeron said... I have the BH9000 with a 10gpm tractor pump. The tractor pump gpm is based on about a 2000 RPM engine rating. I chose to get the aux pump B/C I didn't want to run my machine at WOT. I think you will be OK with out the aux pump because of the smaller dia. cylinders. You can always add it later.

I don't understand this logic. If you had an auxiliary pump, I would assume it is a PTO pump. At what RPM do you reach 540? For me, if I run 540e I'm at 1700, but regular and I'm at ~2400. If you run lower than 540, you might get the flow but you won't have the pressure and the pressure is what digs. Am I missing something?

 

[shaley]

Hydraulic gear pumps always produce full system pressure at any speed. They are positive displacement pumps. The flow rate will vary with engine speed. In my case, the tractor has a 10GPM pump but the PTO Pump is a 15GPM pump so I just run the engine slower.

 

[bjcsc]

Hydraulic gear pumps always produce full system pressure at any speed. They are positive displacement pumps. The flow rate will vary with engine speed. In my case, the tractor has a 10GPM pump but the PTO Pump is a 15GPM pump so I just run the engine slower.

That's good info.. In that case, I would do the same as you did...

 

[Spiveyman]

Lots of peopl run their ford loader from their rear remotes. And no.. you don't specifically need both remotes.. Presumably you are getting a joystick or multi valve control for this loader? If so, it just needs pressure and return.. IE.. 1 set of remotes.

( Technically you could run the laoder lift/dump off your 2 sets of remotes and no other valves. This is slightly more clumsy.. but works. many -older- fords like I have work like this.. etc.. IE.. dual hyd valve on the lift cover runs the loader.

Soundguy

Ah Ha! That explains it! Thank you. The guy at the shop said that I would only need one remote to run the loader, but couldn't explain why. My experience has been with older loaders (very limited experience) so I didn't see how you could do that. Yes, it's a new Bush Hog with a joystick - multi valve controller thing like you described. Then assuming that the hoe only needs one remote I wouldn't need the PTO pump to keep from having to disconnect and reconnect to switch between the two. I think that's the answer I was looking for. I always took your name to mean like "audio" guy, and I have no idea what it is for, but I'm thinking sound "advice" guy.

Thanks.

 

[3RRL]

My tractor has 2 PTO speeds, 540 and 720. One thing I do to run my PTO pump is use the 720 PTO speed. I run my engine around 1500 to 1600 rpm instead of 2300rpm using the 540 PTO range. Doing that, the PTO now spins at approx 500 rpm and that's fast enough to run my backhoe.

 

[Soundguy]

Yep.. if you have 2 sets of remotes, and only need one for your other stuff.. then the other will run your loader.. etc. just keep in mind total system flow is divided between both remot sets and your 3pt.. so if you are doing lots of loader work, then there is less flow for other things.. Depending on your power steering setup.. you may have a priority valve in place so the PS gets it's oil first. That said.. your machine should have a decent amount of flow for your uses.. etc..

And yes.. 'soundguy' does have an audio reference. My night gig is as a sound engineer for a small media company.. etc.

soundguy

Ah Ha! That explains it! Thank you. The guy at the shop said that I would only need one remote to run the loader, but couldn't explain why. My experience has been with older loaders (very limited experience) so I didn't see how you could do that. Yes, it's a new Bush Hog with a joystick - multi valve controller thing like you described. Then assuming that the hoe only needs one remote I wouldn't need the PTO pump to keep from having to disconnect and reconnect to switch between the two. I think that's the answer I was looking for. I always took your name to mean like "audio" guy, and I have no idea what it is for, but I'm thinking sound "advice" guy.

Thanks.

 

[Spiveyman]

Yep.. if you have 2 sets of remotes, and only need one for your other stuff.. then the other will run your loader.. etc. just keep in mind total system flow is divided between both remot sets and your 3pt.. so if you are doing lots of loader work, then there is less flow for other things.. Depending on your power steering setup.. you may have a priority valve in place so the PS gets it's oil first. That said.. your machine should have a decent amount of flow for your uses.. etc..

Interesting. OK, I have a question that is a tad off the maint post topic, but related to your comments here about the PS. First of all, I doubt I'd be using the back hoe and the PS at the same time, but perhaps just holding the thing up while driving to the work site may be an issue. That's what I ran into last night.

I put the rear blade on the tractor, drove it up to the gate, dropped the rpm way down, pulled it out of gear and set the e-brake. I opened the gate, then jumped back on the tractor to pull through before any of the cattle started to get interested in the open gate. I was at just above idle speed on the rpm, I had the selector in the high range and put it in 2nd-hi (so that would be 6th gear in a 1st through 8th range), I eased out on the clutch and started rolling through the opening, when I went to turn to miss the gate the PS was a little jerky, I had more resistance to turning than I expected.

Is that to be expected with very low engine RPM and an implement lifted on the rear and starting off in a higher gear - which I'm sure pulled the rpm down a tad more? I was afraid there might be something wrong with the PS, but when I rev it up to a decent working rpm it turns super smooth. Was I simply starving the hydraulics?

 

[3RRL]

I think it's pretty common to have the PS react like that at low rpms whether you have an implement on or not. Does yours have a separate pump for the power steering or is combined with the rest of your hydraulics?

 

[Soundguy]

As 3RRL is touching on.. as engine rpm is lower.. so will hyd pump output be.

At idle, My big ford 5000 and NH 7610s also have bad power steering.. rev them up and you can cut donuts...

If you wanted better power steering, you needed to select a gear / range that let you rev the engine above idle.

The lifted load on your hyds was no longer a real burden as the check valve was holding it up.. minus any loss due to leakage that would have been used to regenerate the system.. etc..

Soundguy

soundguy