slowrev
Elite Member
Yes, that is the core of the whole problem, lack of respect and consideration of our fellow humans.
Ben
Ben
Invasion of the City Folk
- Thread starter Mrwurm
- Start date
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Two wrongs don't make a right and never will in my book.
Like I said above, I grew up in a place where kids had free roam and we could do what we wanted... not necessarily be WE wanted to, but because of the graces of the owners around us.
I'm in the situation now where I do have a little land that friends neighbors and yes, even some strangers cross. I will NEVER run someone off of it unless they abuse it. And then ONLY the abusers. I'm not retentive about my lawn, heck I even ride my own 4 wheeler on it, why should I say anything if a neighbor does? I will pick up trash 1000 times, get ticked off at the ACTUAL person who did the transgression but I will NEVER show animosity to anyone else based on the actions of the bad ones. Nor will I give up and give in based on the bad ones.
I am THAT thankful for what I had as a kid. I hope someone that I am nice to will do the same in the future.
Oh... If someone gets hurt on my property and sues me, oh well.. I'm doing something good even if the outcome is bad. I can live with myself taking that chance. I could not if I didn't.
I've mentioned it before.. my morality may get me killed (or at least end me up broke) one day, but I know where I'm going when I'm out of this place.
Like I said above, I grew up in a place where kids had free roam and we could do what we wanted... not necessarily be WE wanted to, but because of the graces of the owners around us.
I'm in the situation now where I do have a little land that friends neighbors and yes, even some strangers cross. I will NEVER run someone off of it unless they abuse it. And then ONLY the abusers. I'm not retentive about my lawn, heck I even ride my own 4 wheeler on it, why should I say anything if a neighbor does? I will pick up trash 1000 times, get ticked off at the ACTUAL person who did the transgression but I will NEVER show animosity to anyone else based on the actions of the bad ones. Nor will I give up and give in based on the bad ones.
I am THAT thankful for what I had as a kid. I hope someone that I am nice to will do the same in the future.
Oh... If someone gets hurt on my property and sues me, oh well.. I'm doing something good even if the outcome is bad. I can live with myself taking that chance. I could not if I didn't.
I've mentioned it before.. my morality may get me killed (or at least end me up broke) one day, but I know where I'm going when I'm out of this place.
Varmintmist
Platinum Member
When the ATV's (hereafter refered to as motorized trespassing units, MTU) ruin a crop or your work, that is OK with you? When you start picking up syringes where your kids play, tell me all about values.
The nearest intersection to where I grew up got a permanant stop sign in 1986. As a kid I hunted and snowmobiled everywhere, AFTER I got permission, not before. I rode horses where I had permission to. Even though everyone could use each others tools if you really needed them, unless it was a absoulte emergency, you waited for permission. If there was someone outside when you were riding or hunting through, you stopped because it was the polite thing to do even if you didnt have the time. You didnt go where you didnt have permission and you chipped in when the balers were running because that was the right thing to do. You are right in one part, there was a community, common values, many common causes. It wasnt the Mayberry that you apparently grew up in, but it was real. I am guessing that if you had torn up someones hayfield with you bike that the first thing that would have happened was you would be cutting a switch. Then your dad would make you apologise and then your butt would be slave labor to the farmer. Thats how it worked where I grew up. There was common decency and mutual respect then.
There is little of that now.
I have a lot of neighbors that have permission to hunt on my land, one kid wants to try his hand at trapping. He just arrowed a deer on my place Saturday and his dad got one in the same area Tues. I offered to take my tractor back and get it for him. Those people respect my land and have my permission to be there.
I also have a neighbor that moved "to the country" to ride his MTU's. He bought 3.5ac in "the country" and proceded to turn his minor children loose on MTU's on my property on freshly seeded logging trails, that need to be growing to stop erosion and keep the woodlot status. I threw them off once and had a talk with "daddy". He said they wouldnt be on again. I told him he could hunt there and since the cost of heat was up if he wanted to take some of the tree tops that were down to do it. I just dont want the MTU's tearing me up.
I caught 5 MTU's this summer in my back yard. Comments were from "we didnt know anyone built a house here" to "I didnt know you owned it" Neither of which mean squat. This fall I had a Grand dad and his grand daughter ride into my back yard, see me and turn around. They went down a trail behind my rifle range that ended in a food plot. I got to the top of the trail and waited. That was when it got posted. Single person MTU 2 riders, shorts, T shirts, house slippers for the kid and sneakers for gramps.
Fast fwd to "daddy" again. I caught his kid on my ground after it was posted. They drove around the sign and the trail looked like a strip mine. I confronted him. He, his wife and their son threatend me. Now the sign post that faces them is turned around to face my ground about once a week. To do that they have to trespass as all of the posters are 10 feet or better into my land. The line is pinned every 200 feet, flagged, is blazed in yellow and has a timber boundry painted facing inward, pretty easy to figure out if you miss the posters. There was also wood debries laid across the trail about 40 feet into my land.
I will catch this covetious, greedychild and we will see if the magistrate can explain property lines to him. I might ask at that time about his garbage that is dumped on me. We could have got along but he thinks that he has a right to stuff that he hasen't paid for. He is a trespasser and a thief, and his old lady is the same and he is training his kids that its ok. They will just be someone elses problem later.
Maybe your time means nothing to you, but I left home with a set of clothes and a plane ticket from Uncle Sam, and worked for a lot of years to get MY land. I dont owe him or you a thing. To people who respect me and mine, I can get along fine with. Most of them have volenteered to help me catch this fool because the trespassers came through my place and tore their land up to.
You aren't the only one who gets steamed when you see these threads. Country aint country no more and it isnt because of new houses.
The nearest intersection to where I grew up got a permanant stop sign in 1986. As a kid I hunted and snowmobiled everywhere, AFTER I got permission, not before. I rode horses where I had permission to. Even though everyone could use each others tools if you really needed them, unless it was a absoulte emergency, you waited for permission. If there was someone outside when you were riding or hunting through, you stopped because it was the polite thing to do even if you didnt have the time. You didnt go where you didnt have permission and you chipped in when the balers were running because that was the right thing to do. You are right in one part, there was a community, common values, many common causes. It wasnt the Mayberry that you apparently grew up in, but it was real. I am guessing that if you had torn up someones hayfield with you bike that the first thing that would have happened was you would be cutting a switch. Then your dad would make you apologise and then your butt would be slave labor to the farmer. Thats how it worked where I grew up. There was common decency and mutual respect then.
There is little of that now.
I have a lot of neighbors that have permission to hunt on my land, one kid wants to try his hand at trapping. He just arrowed a deer on my place Saturday and his dad got one in the same area Tues. I offered to take my tractor back and get it for him. Those people respect my land and have my permission to be there.
I also have a neighbor that moved "to the country" to ride his MTU's. He bought 3.5ac in "the country" and proceded to turn his minor children loose on MTU's on my property on freshly seeded logging trails, that need to be growing to stop erosion and keep the woodlot status. I threw them off once and had a talk with "daddy". He said they wouldnt be on again. I told him he could hunt there and since the cost of heat was up if he wanted to take some of the tree tops that were down to do it. I just dont want the MTU's tearing me up.
I caught 5 MTU's this summer in my back yard. Comments were from "we didnt know anyone built a house here" to "I didnt know you owned it" Neither of which mean squat. This fall I had a Grand dad and his grand daughter ride into my back yard, see me and turn around. They went down a trail behind my rifle range that ended in a food plot. I got to the top of the trail and waited. That was when it got posted. Single person MTU 2 riders, shorts, T shirts, house slippers for the kid and sneakers for gramps.
Fast fwd to "daddy" again. I caught his kid on my ground after it was posted. They drove around the sign and the trail looked like a strip mine. I confronted him. He, his wife and their son threatend me. Now the sign post that faces them is turned around to face my ground about once a week. To do that they have to trespass as all of the posters are 10 feet or better into my land. The line is pinned every 200 feet, flagged, is blazed in yellow and has a timber boundry painted facing inward, pretty easy to figure out if you miss the posters. There was also wood debries laid across the trail about 40 feet into my land.
I will catch this covetious, greedychild and we will see if the magistrate can explain property lines to him. I might ask at that time about his garbage that is dumped on me. We could have got along but he thinks that he has a right to stuff that he hasen't paid for. He is a trespasser and a thief, and his old lady is the same and he is training his kids that its ok. They will just be someone elses problem later.
Maybe your time means nothing to you, but I left home with a set of clothes and a plane ticket from Uncle Sam, and worked for a lot of years to get MY land. I dont owe him or you a thing. To people who respect me and mine, I can get along fine with. Most of them have volenteered to help me catch this fool because the trespassers came through my place and tore their land up to.
You aren't the only one who gets steamed when you see these threads. Country aint country no more and it isnt because of new houses.
Varmintmist
Platinum Member
/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
That felt good /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
That felt good /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
dmccarty
Super Star Member
VarmintMist,
Amen.
I bet it did feel good! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
And its not just about city folk putting up signs to keep people off their land. When we were looking to buy land we went to a property that was for sale. It had been 100 acres but was subdivided into two 50 acre sections with one section being farm field and the other with a bunch of barns and a house. We met the owner who was in his 80s. The farm had been in his family since around 1900.
The man was a chicken farmer. He smelled like a chicken farmer. Heck, he smelled like a chicken. Smelly chicken that is. While we were talking a couple of rabbit hunters and their dogs popped over hill. They were well on his land. They had crossed the farm field and now were in the second section. He asked if I would ride along to help talk to those "fella's" and I said sure. They were nice and polite, kept the rifles safe, and appoligized to the farmer. They knew they were not supposed to be on the land and got off.
In NC there is not a state law that forbids hunting on other's land unless it is posted. However in my county one does have to have written permission. Its BS that there is not a state law for this but that is another subject.
I was real lucky that day. We drove to the rabbit hunters in the farmers truck. It was warm out so I could roll down the window and get some air. Man the truck stank. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think the hunters left to get away from the smell. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Later,
Dan
Amen.
I bet it did feel good! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
And its not just about city folk putting up signs to keep people off their land. When we were looking to buy land we went to a property that was for sale. It had been 100 acres but was subdivided into two 50 acre sections with one section being farm field and the other with a bunch of barns and a house. We met the owner who was in his 80s. The farm had been in his family since around 1900.
The man was a chicken farmer. He smelled like a chicken farmer. Heck, he smelled like a chicken. Smelly chicken that is. While we were talking a couple of rabbit hunters and their dogs popped over hill. They were well on his land. They had crossed the farm field and now were in the second section. He asked if I would ride along to help talk to those "fella's" and I said sure. They were nice and polite, kept the rifles safe, and appoligized to the farmer. They knew they were not supposed to be on the land and got off.
In NC there is not a state law that forbids hunting on other's land unless it is posted. However in my county one does have to have written permission. Its BS that there is not a state law for this but that is another subject.
I was real lucky that day. We drove to the rabbit hunters in the farmers truck. It was warm out so I could roll down the window and get some air. Man the truck stank. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think the hunters left to get away from the smell. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Later,
Dan
No Mayberry here. never was. It was just if on the odd chance something WAS torn up, the person knew that the one who tore it up would get his rear torn up by his parents and then STILL be sent back to fix the stuff he broke.
Notice I made a very big distinction in my gripe. I will NEVER keep someone off my property that hasn't made an offense against it. I don't care how many times someone else has done it. I'm not even saying that it wouldn't do anything else that anyone else has mentioned here to protect their property. The big difference is that I will not do that without provocation from SPECIFIC people.
I anyone can't see the difference in that then I their just giving up and I'm sure some justification will be thrown in, but there is no justification for doing something wrong, even if it is done stop something else wrong from being done (tearing up property).
Money will never rule my life (but even I will admit it sure helps in getting that Gyro I'm saving for here quicker) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Notice I made a very big distinction in my gripe. I will NEVER keep someone off my property that hasn't made an offense against it. I don't care how many times someone else has done it. I'm not even saying that it wouldn't do anything else that anyone else has mentioned here to protect their property. The big difference is that I will not do that without provocation from SPECIFIC people.
I anyone can't see the difference in that then I their just giving up and I'm sure some justification will be thrown in, but there is no justification for doing something wrong, even if it is done stop something else wrong from being done (tearing up property).
Money will never rule my life (but even I will admit it sure helps in getting that Gyro I'm saving for here quicker) /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
RedRocker
Veteran Member
I'm not sure it has anything to do with city or country, maybe more to do with our eroding ethical and moral values as a nation. People like you're dealing with are trash no matter where they are. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
HobbleCreek
Silver Member
I think you're right RedRocker. I currently live in a subdivision. I have the key to my neighbor's house and they have mine. If I have tool that he needs, he's welcome to it and vice versa. We share a power washer -- we didn't both need a whole one so we bought it together. It doesn't make sense for him to buy a trampoline and a basketball hoop. I've got one. I'm not going to go buy one of those tools to turn off the sprinklers in the winter. He's got one.
It's not a matter of country vs. city. It's a matter of people getting along.
Our other property is 100 acres. It's near where my grandpa used to have over 2000 acres. Behind his ranch is the Forest -- your land. It never occurred to Grandpa or my dad that they should try to keep people from crossing their land to get to the forest. People did it all the time. After my dad died in a hunting accident and Grandpa sold the ranch, out came the "No Trespassing" signs.
I think getut has a good philosophy on this whole landownership thing. We really need to consider how blessed we are to have the places we have. I'm not saying we should let people come on the property and ruin it. That just wouldn't be good stewardship. But I do think that a lot of times we ought to consider ourselves more as stewards of the land than as "owners".
I know most of us have had to work hard to get what we have, but when it comes right down to it everything we have is a gift from God, and I think he expects us to take good care of what he's given us and to use it to better the lives of as many people as we can help. If you think that something you "own" is "yours" because of your hard work and not because of God's generosity think about where that capacity for hard work came from.
I really like this forum. We need to have more of this kind of "over the fence" communication going on -- not just in cyberspace, but in our neighborhoods.
Thanks to all of you for giving me some food for thought (and of course for all your tractor advice).
-- Grant
It's not a matter of country vs. city. It's a matter of people getting along.
Our other property is 100 acres. It's near where my grandpa used to have over 2000 acres. Behind his ranch is the Forest -- your land. It never occurred to Grandpa or my dad that they should try to keep people from crossing their land to get to the forest. People did it all the time. After my dad died in a hunting accident and Grandpa sold the ranch, out came the "No Trespassing" signs.
I think getut has a good philosophy on this whole landownership thing. We really need to consider how blessed we are to have the places we have. I'm not saying we should let people come on the property and ruin it. That just wouldn't be good stewardship. But I do think that a lot of times we ought to consider ourselves more as stewards of the land than as "owners".
I know most of us have had to work hard to get what we have, but when it comes right down to it everything we have is a gift from God, and I think he expects us to take good care of what he's given us and to use it to better the lives of as many people as we can help. If you think that something you "own" is "yours" because of your hard work and not because of God's generosity think about where that capacity for hard work came from.
I really like this forum. We need to have more of this kind of "over the fence" communication going on -- not just in cyberspace, but in our neighborhoods.
Thanks to all of you for giving me some food for thought (and of course for all your tractor advice).
-- Grant
YanmarFever
Elite Member
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AMEN !!!
I used to think like that, until my mother got sued for a bicycle accident on her property. Now im a little more paranoid about strangers on my tax lot.
Man things have really changed, in such a short time too.
I guess I would let my guard down if all the lawyers were shipped back to england. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Ernie <><
I used to think like that, until my mother got sued for a bicycle accident on her property. Now im a little more paranoid about strangers on my tax lot.
Man things have really changed, in such a short time too.
I guess I would let my guard down if all the lawyers were shipped back to england. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Ernie <><
HobbleCreek
Silver Member
I know it's easy and popular to blame the lawyers for these kinds of liability issues. I agree that there are some lawyers out there who will champion their client's frivolous cause. However, in my experience it's not the lawyer, but the client, that is bent on pursuing the unjust claim. While it's true that there are plenty of cases where a lawyer is giving the client bad advice, most "bad" lawsuits are motivated by the client's greed, not the lawyer's.
If you haven't guessed yet, I am a lawyer. Don't worry, I'm not offended by the frustration that people have with what they perceive as frivolous lawsuits. I know there are plenty of them out there, and enough poor and/or unethical lawyers to justify the jokes and the derision. My frustration, however, is with the media reporting of the crazy lawsuits. In my opinion the publication of the great exceptions to a normally sane legal process has several negative impacts. First, many of the cases are not accurately reported, leading the general public to place blame for what is perceived as a wacky outcome on an apparently flawed legal system. Second, the publication of the cases does nothing to remedy the supposed flaws. Rather, it makes them worse by planting in peoples' minds the notion that they too can get rich through some frivolous lawsuit.
The famous McDonald's coffee case is an excellent example. Most people do not realize what happened in that case, or why the jury entered a large award against McDonald's. It's popular to say that the woman who brough the case was in the wrong because she should have known that the coffee was hot and it was her own clumsiness that resulted in her injuries. Almost everybody I talk to about that case believes that McDonald's got sued because some clumsy lady spilled coffee on herself. That's not the whole story.
The rest of the story is that McDonald's (and it might have been limited to the one franchisee, not the corporate giant, I don't know) was advertising "all you can drink" coffee. However, to save money on this advertised promotion, McDonald's was heating the coffee way beyond the normal temperature at which coffee is served. The purpose in doing so was to make the coffee too hot to drink. By the time the customer finished their stryofoam plate of hot cakes, the coffee was still scalding hot, and "all you can drink" turned out to be just one cup. McDonald's was intentionally making its coffee not just hot, but dangerously hot. McDonald's was doing something that the jury (which heard all of the evidence) believed it knew was endangering its customers and it was doing it to increase its profits. In my opinion, that kind of conduct should be punished, and for a company that is making boatloads of money selling super heated coffee, it sometimes requires a boatload of punishment to send the message. I don't have a problem with that.
The problem comes, however, when the story is sensationally reported and everyone is led to believe that some lady got a bazillion dollars for spilling coffee on herself. Then when somebody else spills regular coffee down their pants they think they've hit the jackpot and bring the frivolous lawsuit. If they go see a decent lawyer, he tells them they don't have a case. However, if they go to one of the bad lawyers, the defendant ends up spending a bunch of money to get rid of the frivolous lawsuit.
Who's to blame? The lawyer? Sure he bears responsibility to advise the client not to file the frivolous lawsuit. The media? I suppose at some level because they have irrepsonsibly and inaccurately reported the sensational lawsuits. But mostly the responsibility lies with the clumsy person who thinks they're going to "dig a pit for their neighbor" because of either their own clumsiness or perhaps even an honest mistake.
OK. I'll come down off my soapbox. I don't promise to stay down, but I'll come down for now . . . before somebody kicks it out from under me and I have to sue the pants of them! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
-- Grant
If you haven't guessed yet, I am a lawyer. Don't worry, I'm not offended by the frustration that people have with what they perceive as frivolous lawsuits. I know there are plenty of them out there, and enough poor and/or unethical lawyers to justify the jokes and the derision. My frustration, however, is with the media reporting of the crazy lawsuits. In my opinion the publication of the great exceptions to a normally sane legal process has several negative impacts. First, many of the cases are not accurately reported, leading the general public to place blame for what is perceived as a wacky outcome on an apparently flawed legal system. Second, the publication of the cases does nothing to remedy the supposed flaws. Rather, it makes them worse by planting in peoples' minds the notion that they too can get rich through some frivolous lawsuit.
The famous McDonald's coffee case is an excellent example. Most people do not realize what happened in that case, or why the jury entered a large award against McDonald's. It's popular to say that the woman who brough the case was in the wrong because she should have known that the coffee was hot and it was her own clumsiness that resulted in her injuries. Almost everybody I talk to about that case believes that McDonald's got sued because some clumsy lady spilled coffee on herself. That's not the whole story.
The rest of the story is that McDonald's (and it might have been limited to the one franchisee, not the corporate giant, I don't know) was advertising "all you can drink" coffee. However, to save money on this advertised promotion, McDonald's was heating the coffee way beyond the normal temperature at which coffee is served. The purpose in doing so was to make the coffee too hot to drink. By the time the customer finished their stryofoam plate of hot cakes, the coffee was still scalding hot, and "all you can drink" turned out to be just one cup. McDonald's was intentionally making its coffee not just hot, but dangerously hot. McDonald's was doing something that the jury (which heard all of the evidence) believed it knew was endangering its customers and it was doing it to increase its profits. In my opinion, that kind of conduct should be punished, and for a company that is making boatloads of money selling super heated coffee, it sometimes requires a boatload of punishment to send the message. I don't have a problem with that.
The problem comes, however, when the story is sensationally reported and everyone is led to believe that some lady got a bazillion dollars for spilling coffee on herself. Then when somebody else spills regular coffee down their pants they think they've hit the jackpot and bring the frivolous lawsuit. If they go see a decent lawyer, he tells them they don't have a case. However, if they go to one of the bad lawyers, the defendant ends up spending a bunch of money to get rid of the frivolous lawsuit.
Who's to blame? The lawyer? Sure he bears responsibility to advise the client not to file the frivolous lawsuit. The media? I suppose at some level because they have irrepsonsibly and inaccurately reported the sensational lawsuits. But mostly the responsibility lies with the clumsy person who thinks they're going to "dig a pit for their neighbor" because of either their own clumsiness or perhaps even an honest mistake.
OK. I'll come down off my soapbox. I don't promise to stay down, but I'll come down for now . . . before somebody kicks it out from under me and I have to sue the pants of them! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
-- Grant
