Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea?

   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #1  

HenRut

Bronze Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
74
Location
South-Central Massachusetts
Tractor
2015 TYM T1003C
Will the hi or standard flow version of, say, a Bradco Land Shark skid steer brush mower work on the front loader of a 100hp tractor with skid steer quick attach mount AND a hydraulic power pack outputting 25-33gpm to front remotes? At 9K lbs, the tractor has the weight but will the operation of the mower designed for a skid steer damage the loader arms? Is the tractor up to the task? I have experience operating a CTL and mower (Kubota SVL-90 and Land Shark) but little experience on a tractor, with or without any type of mower. Thanks in advance.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #2  
SS arms are their only engagement method & are built tough accordingly. Tractors are designed for pulling & loaders are an afterthought. Heavy engine & loader over the weak expensive fragile axle. No ballast on the back, etc.

But if if your tractor is suitably overkill (double or more lift capacity compared to implement weight) you shouldn't have any problems. Running a mower infront of the tires means better cutting due to material not being squished too.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea?
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Loader lift capacity is a hair more than double that of the largest Bradco mower (Extreme Duty). Total tractor weight with loader, attachment and power pack is 13,215 lbs. That's 2K lbs more than the Kubota CTL I ran with a standard flow Bradco. I imagine I'll miss the nimbleness of the CTL in maneuvering but the PS trans of the tractor (hopefully) will help. I'll also have to be mindful that, unlike the CTL, the windshield is not Lexan.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #4  
Well, if they didn't want people running skid steer attachments on that loader, I suppose they should mention that somewhere in the manual. Sounds like it'll be fun to run.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #5  
Well, if they didn't want people running skid steer attachments on that loader, I suppose they should mention that somewhere in the manual. Sounds like it'll be fun to run.

One would think. To satisfy my curiosity, I may check with Bradco to hear what they think.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #6  
Just last week I put my Ambusher on the tractor for the 1st time. While on my way to the far side of the property I mowed down the edge of my dirt road, close to a mile. My wife wanted a path cut down near her (wild) blueberry patch for access and escape route for when she sees a bear. (yes she was 20' from one last year before she saw it) With the front of the mower about 7-8' in front of the front wheels, mowing closer than a 10" height meant a lot of banging into the ground with out a very smooth path. The mower was nothing (load wise) for the tractor or loader, but I'd only use it for grinding down the tall stuff in terrain to rough for the SS. This was with the tractor in my avatar.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #7  
Just last week I put my Ambusher on the tractor for the 1st time. While on my way to the far side of the property I mowed down the edge of my dirt road, close to a mile. My wife wanted a path cut down near her (wild) blueberry patch for access and escape route for when she sees a bear. (yes she was 20' from one last year before she saw it) With the front of the mower about 7-8' in front of the front wheels, mowing closer than a 10" height meant a lot of banging into the ground with out a very smooth path. The mower was nothing (load wise) for the tractor or loader, but I'd only use it for grinding down the tall stuff in terrain to rough for the SS. This was with the tractor in my avatar.

Was the M9540 porpoising because of the weight out front? What does the Ambusher weigh and did you have any weight on the rear 3pt? I also think the Bradco can be had with guide wheels. Wheels might stop the scalping, if not the porpoising.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #8  
The weight was not an issue at all, it was the exagerated movement over dips & rises in the terrain due to the mowers distance away from the tractor. It will work, I just wouldn't want to mow a field with it with a pto & 3pt hitch available out back. Not sure on the weight of the mower but I would guess it's under 800#.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #9  
Current selling Ambushers weigh in at 1,200 to 1,400# depending on width. Bradco Ground Sharks are between 1,300# and 2,000# depending on standard duty or extreme. I assume the more weight, the more porpoising (bounce). Not sure how much difference carrying weight on the 3pt would make. The hydraulic power pack on the rear of the tractor weights in around 600#. FWIW, the Kubota CTL (SVL-90) with standard Ground Shark had a fair amount of bounce and scalping when tackling uneven ground, especially going downhill.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea?
  • Thread Starter
#10  
So I spoke with Bradco about running their Ground Sharks on a tractor. Their position was, although the power pack, tractor QA will run the mower fine, they cannot recommend the setup due to liability issues. Those issues being the tractor's ability to raise the loader arms and mower high enough to throw material backwards into the tractor windshield. It's a curious position as this is the same hazard they have with skid steers/ctl, their recommended machines. This is why they attach a chain to the rear of the unit to limit the ability to raise the mower beyond a certain height.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #11  
Out of curosity, why is it that your interested in mowing with a hyd. mower out front on a tractor, instead of a conventional 3pt hitch mower & what will you be mowing (fields, tall brush/clearing, cleaning fence row's, etc)
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #12  
HenRut, if you haven't bought a mower, check this one: Tree Terminator - Rotary Brush Mower for Skid Steers

Note that it is hinged to the SSQA and has a nose wheel.

P4010028.JPG


P4010050.JPG


P4120002.JPG


P4120025.JPG



Good view from the seat. :thumbsup:

Pic1003004.jpg
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea?
  • Thread Starter
#13  
Out of curosity, why is it that your interested in mowing with a hyd. mower out front on a tractor, instead of a conventional 3pt hitch mower & what will you be mowing (fields, tall brush/clearing, cleaning fence row's, etc)

I've got 100 acres, about half of which is wooded that needs thinning. Also fence lines and pond edges. That's what the front mounted brush mower is for. The other half is pasture and hayfields. I plan to use a batwing for maintenance of the pastures and other open areas that are not hay. I tried maintaining the open areas with a rented CTL with brush mower and it took way too long.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea?
  • Thread Starter
#14  
I like the "nose"wheel and hinge, which should help on my pond edges and any porpoising/scalping. I'll definitely give the Tree Terminator a look. Their website doesn't list any prices.
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #16  
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #17  
Out of curosity, why is it that your interested in mowing with a hyd. mower out front on a tractor, instead of a conventional 3pt hitch mower & what will you be mowing (fields, tall brush/clearing, cleaning fence row's, etc)

Interesting thread. I bought a FEL mounted, very heavy duty, skid-steer compatible, rotary cutter in 2011 along with a new-at-the-time MF2660 tractor. The cutter was a low-flow version CID 5ft with 5/8" thick bidirectional blades and capable of cutting about anything you can get it over top of. HOWEVER, the low-flow version of the CID cutter is said to need 14 to 20 gpm flow. The 17gpm flow of the tractor was NOT adequate at all. It was so easy to bog down on inch-thick material it was not really very useful. See enclosed photos. There is much to be learned from this experience. P1160590.JPG P1160623.JPG P1160628.JPG

It would be a great combo to run a bush hog in back and one of these FEL-mounted cutters in front. To answer the "Why?" question, these FEL mounted cutters can cut brush and unwanted growth from the top down in places you cannot get with the hog. Overhanging limbs, down over banks, up against hillsides, in tight places where you cannot otherwise reach, etc. It allows one to "clear a path" in front to be further cut/cleared by the hog in back. If you are cleaning up an old farm overgrown by autumn olives these SHOULD be great machines and a great combo. By using the FEL mounted unit you can avoid major effort necessary to mount one of the boom-arm cutters on the back which becomes mutually exclusive with your bush hog. Sad to report the front cutter was effectively useless. You need a lot more hydraulic flow than an 81 horse 17gpm tractor provides. I ended up trading the front cutter for a VMC (Orsi brand) rear boom cutter which is a big job to get on and off the tractor and precludes using the bush hog when it is on. I'd be glad to elaborate on pitfalls and benefits of the 3pt mounted VMC/Orsi cutter,maybe another thread.

Let me put aside the concerns about loader capacity, weight, etc. First, my 4-in-1 bucket weighs just over 1000lbs. and the front mower is no more than twice that. Tractors in the 70 hp and above classes will have no problem lifting and moving with these cutters. That is by far the LEAST of your problems. The manufacturers are in apoplectic fear of people trying aggressive mechanical combinations. Somehow the lawyers do not understand I am always responsible for me and they are not.

One surprise issue (which even many long-term dealers do not know) is that essentially all tractors under $50,000 have "one-track-mind hydraulics." You cannot raise the FEL while your remote is turning an hydraulic motor. Among your remotes and your FEL, ONE FUNCTION WORKS UNDER HYDRAULIC FORCE AT A TIME. What happens is that using one of the front cutters (even if you had adequate flow, which you don't) the minute you try to raise the cutter or change the angle of it the motor shuts off. Then the motor jerks back ON as soon as you stop changing the angle or stop lifting. This is berserk operational behavior which is not productive, very unnerving, and eventually harmful to the machinery I would think. One could pursue adding flow splitters and elaborate hydraulic flow manipulation devices at great expense but that is moot if you don't have enough flow in the first place.

Bottom line: You need an independent engine (crankshaft driven) or PTO driven hydraulic pump to power these cutters. Otherwise they are simply not practical on a farm tractor. They are much better for use with a skid steer.
 
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   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #18  
Originally Posted by JWR HOWEVER, the low-flow version of the CID cutter is said to need 14 to 20 gpm flow. The 17gpm flow of the tractor was NOT adequate at all. It was so easy to bog down on inch-thick material it was not really very useful.

I think the small diameter steel lines on the loader arms and the small hoses were a big part of it not working well.

P1160590 (1).JPG
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea? #19  
No question, you are correct that the lines were on the small side for this task. I'm sure running bigger lines all the way from the remote at the back of the tractor to the loader attach point would have improved the flow but that is on the order of 12 or15 feet of lines. I know of one case where a large hydraulic motor driven snow blower at an airport was "back to the dealer" for exactly that change -- larger hoses. In that case they had to go back yet a second time for larger hose than anyone thought was needed. Combine that with "one track mind hydraulics" that stops the cutter motor every time you move the loader frame or tilt the cutter -- just too much in my case. It was a bad decision to get the thing in the first place. The PTO driven VMC hog on an articulated boom almost never bogs down, will cut darn near anything, is far more useful for cutting along fence rows and overhanging limbs, etc. The VMC/Orsi cutter solves the one track mind hydraulics problem by using two pumps. One for positioning and one for driving the cutter. That works and works right. Only down side is getting it on/off the tractor and being mutually exclusive with the bush hog. P1220803.JPG
 
   / Is a HD SS Mower on Tractor Loader a Good Idea?
  • Thread Starter
#20  
How do you like the Orsi? I'm looking at boom mowers to get at a pond and roadside ditches on my property. I know you have the rotary head, but my interest would favor the flail. What size brush can the rotary head cut? The sales guy said the flail can cut up to 3" and the rotary head 5-6". This sound right? Finally, does it appear the unit is quick hitch compatible?
 
 

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