Is it just me, or does this go too far?

[MossRoad]

David, you obviously did not read what I wrote very well . . .

Or maybe you didn't write it very well. Or maybe I missed something.

I went back and re-read every post you made in this thread and the original theme seems to be that the manufacturers aren't consistent in the way they report numbers and that they are misleading customers? Then later you are defending the loader companies because some buyers cannot interpret the numbers that the loader companies published. Which one is it? The deceiving loader companies or the inept buyers or both?

I understand that the numbers are out there for us to interpret. I also understand that the numbers are not taken at consistent measuring points and they are not taken at the same GPM and pressures. Until some governing body requires that all measurements are taken at consistent points and GPM and pressure and temperature of fluid, and air temp, etc... the numbers are just a starting point for the consumer to interpret. I don't see it as any conspiracy by the loader manufacturers. They are going to make their product look as good as they can and that is marketing. It is up to the consumer to do his or her homework.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

I went back and re-read every post you made in this thread and the original theme seems to be that the manufacturers aren't consistent in the way they report numbers and that they are misleading customers? Then later you are defending the loader companies because some buyers cannot interpret the numbers that the loader companies published. Which one is it? The deceiving loader companies or the inept buyers or both?

Both. And a little bit more. All of it is consistent.

• I am critical of the TRACTOR companies that sell OEM loaders by using deceiving information.
• I am defending AFTER MARKET loader companies because they publish their numbers.
• Further I am saying that buyers need to understand that when they buy a tractor from one compay and a loader from an aftermarket company that the buyer must understand that the loader will only perform up to the loader manufacturer's specs IF the tractor will produce the required hydraulic output in both gpm and psi.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

In a couple other threads that have been ongoing here of late, I've mentioned my displeasure with "specs" and statistics from all the manufacurers. If they publish one spec that's obviously wrong, misleading, confusing, or whatever choice of words we use, where do we start believing the rest of their claims? Loader specs seem to be apples vs. oranges most of the time. But who's to say "Brand X" has all their other specs "spot on" when their loader specs are pure smoke and mirrors B.S.?

Without impartial standardized testing, why believe anything they claim?

So, to all you manufacturing reps out there, send your tractors to me, and I'll put 'em through their paces!

I'll even call 'em "The Kentucky Tests".

 

[MossRoad]

Bob,
Now that makes sense to me. Thanks.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

I'll even call 'em "The Kentucky Tests".

At least until you get your first bill from the State of Kentucky for license fees on their name...

 

[BillyP]

Without impartial standardized testing, why believe anything they claim?

These days you shouldn't and that goes for any spec they publish. Just go to NE Tractor Test Publications and check out the test results for some of the newest models. You'll find John Deere, Kubota and New Holland don't seem to know what their tractor specs really are. That's pretty bad, when they're paying for these tests

If they can't get the tractor specs right, how far off are they on loaders

It could be that little clause at the bottom of the advertisement that says

Specifications are based on published information at the time of publication. Specifications are subject to change without notice

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Without impartial standardized testing, why believe anything they claim?

I am afraid that no such thing really exists. Or could. EPA mileage is little more than a finger to the wind. Tire mileage tests are pretty much a joke. Some 'consumer advocate' groups are little more than fronts for tort lawyers. Maybe it CAN be done right. But the track record is pretty dismal.

 

[albmn10]

Bob Skurka, id be the guy you were quoting with the Woods loader on the Kioti. Just for the record, the Woods 1012 loader was tested at 2250 psi, therefore the specs were accurate for its listed capacities.The ck30 puts out 2560 psi . The problem was that Woods doesnt clearly state all lift points clearly on its websight, including the 500mm forward.. The moral of that discussion was that not all tractor companies actually met the rated lift capacities as proven in the Nebraska testing. We actually need an independent test agency to test all compacts under 40 hp to see where the fact and fiction really begins and ends..

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

We do not need independant testing, all we need is for these companies to start consistantly publishing by the ASAE spec and provide BOTH pivot pin and bucket center measurements. This standard is intended to ensure that everyone is using the same testing procedures, sadly Deere's award winning marketing company seems to be more interested in sales than ethical business.

In the past this discussion has been aimed mostly that the companies who post just the pivot figures, but here Deere is sinking to low by using figures that are below the full lift height of the loader. This is totally bogus and not based upon any standardized measurement system.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

With all the capability that a real website offers; there is no reason that each manufacture cannot easily make full specifications readily available. They do not even have to be posted right out front, just able to be found.

And that is real specs. Not only the individual loader numbers, but as fitted to their respective machines. Or, in the case of 'generic' loaders, at least some typical machines.

As consumers we need to demand that real life specs be shown. Ask the dealer to proveide accurate printed specs of the actual equipment as configured. Contact the manufacturer for the same. If consumers would demand these numbers, they would make them available.

But remember, one problem with the numbers is that, even with full accurate numbers, only an experienced operator will know the limitations of the equipment where it is being used. A machine may be capable of lifting a load that it cannot safely handle in the work environment. Hopefully, the dealer is qualified and equipped to help the buyer assess the proper application of equipment. And, things being as they are, buyers are wise to over compensate by allowing 'fudge factor' with the numbers, rather to be safe than dead.

But, if manufactures decide to move numbers through dealers that until recently have been selling lawnmowers and they themselves aren't aware of these pitfalls. And aren't providing them with the proper tools. Then their customers will be little better than the ones that bought from the TireBaitTractorWebsitedesignTshirt Dealers.