Is it possible to swail with a 400??

Anonymous Poster · Nov 27, 2002

This is not a show stopper by any stretch but another chance to "modify"...

Ok, now that everyone has confirmed my suspicions(about no implement roll axis),seems like a perfect opportunity to further refine an already "perfect tool". If others here have a "need" I'm sure there will be pouring forth of ideas on how to accomplish this roll axis much like the solutions to the
"grapple" problem and the "hoe" challenge. I've got some thoughts on how to accomplish this ,too, but welding and drawing are 2 of many weaknesses...

I'm "visualizing" a mount plate center bolted and pivoting but held "captive" around its circumference by another plate
fixed to the tool...the rotation is "fixed" near the outside diameter with a threaded tab extending through a slot in the "captivating" plate with a threaded rod(and handle) where
one hand cranks +/- 10-15 deg roll in to tool.

Actually having this tractor soon will help my imagination
immensely.

This could be a mod to a snow blade/box blade/rake/etc.

In talking w/Sean and Terry and "probing" for what's coming,
one of them mentioned a "3yr engineering review process" for a given model line where design changes/features are implement/ enhanced...(hopefully this time frame doesn't apply to "fixes")

Couldn't get any confirmation of lift height enhancement
rumors on this first phone call...

Anonymous Poster · Nov 27, 2002

See what I mean...while I was asleep at the keyboard,
Charlie and Hazmat jumped in obsoleted my last post already...Nice going...

Charlie_Iliff · Nov 27, 2002

I don't know how thick the quick attach plates are, but you should be able to squeeze a small hydraulic cylinder in a 3" gap.

Hazmat:
The quick attach plates range from 3/8 to 1/2" thick. The plate on the tractor is flat against the one on the implement, so no current room between them, even for a bolt end. What we need, therefore, is an adapter from an attachment, which Power Trac sells for each size, with a rotating connection to another tractor plate, which is just a trapezoiddal flat plate with a couple of locking dogs on the back. Certainly, a 3" long section of large diameter pipe on one plate, with a 2 3/4 length of a corresponding smaller size on the other would give the swivel axis. A flange with load bearing capability on one would have to engage structure on the other, unless we can work out a strong center bolt with no protrusion through either plate. I think a cylinder would fit pretty easily. I only proposed the stub axle and bearings because I've already got them - laziness once again rules my engineering analysis./w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

Anonymous Poster · Nov 27, 2002

Great drawing...with 2 large plates bearing on each other and as little as a 1in dia. bolt holding 'em together...don't think there would be much more stress in a forward direction than a standard hitch plate....It's moving in reverse where the stress comes in now on that pivot bolt...
but this is where 1 plate is held captive about it circumference
by the 2nd plate...The strength of this "captivity" would dictate
whether you would be able to "work" in reverse.

hazmat · Nov 27, 2002

Great drawing...with 2 large plates bearing on each other and as little as a 1in dia. bolt holding 'em together...don't think there would be much more stress in a forward direction than a standard hitch plate....It's moving in reverse where the stress comes in now on that pivot bolt...

I wouldn't worry about breaking the bolt using the PT in reverse.

80,000psi * .78in^2 = 62,400# before you'd break a grade 8 one inch bolt. A bit less before your do damage to it. It is the bending moment IE lifting something up or pushing down that you'd get into trouble first.

Let me scratch my head a little more & see If I can imrove on my first drawing a bit.

Anonymous Poster · Nov 27, 2002

Re: "The plate on the tractor is flat against the one on the implement, so no current room between them, even for a bolt end. What we need, therefore, is an adapter from an attachment, which Power Trac sells for each size, with a rotating connection to another tractor plate, which is just a trapezoiddal flat plate with a couple of locking dogs on the back"

Charlie, this my understanding, too, though I was thinking
of modifying a specific tool...your explanation sounds like a universal adapter for any tool...even better!

hazmat · Nov 27, 2002

A flange with load bearing capability on one would have to engage structure on the other, unless we can work out a strong center bolt with no protrusion through either plate

Easy to hide the bolt head. Simply make the plate thicker & counter bore it to keep the bolt head (or nut) shy of the outer surface.

I've been scratching my head, but need more info (maybe a couple pics) about these dogs. If we are to design a "universal swivel" we need to allow some method of attaching it to the implement. A couple options here. 1. transfer the hydrualic dog setup from the tractor to the swivel & hard mount the swivel to the tractor, 2, duplicate the hydraulics & dogs on the swivel with some sort of diverter valve. 3. Hard mount the swivel to the implement.

Option 2 is the most versitile, but also the most expensive. Option 3 is the easiest, but least versitile (not really a universal swivel). Option 1 is in the middle, but you have to have the swivel mounted all the time. It will reduce lifting capacity somewhat.

If you guys are really interested in this, start a new thread & get me some pics of the locking dog system & some measurements of the plates. I'm happy to lend my engineering & cad talents. Also need a budget goal (helps keep us engineers from designing something so elegant that no one can afford it). I propose two versions the "economy" with a manual turnbuckle & the "deluxe" with a hyd. cylinder.

MossRoad · Nov 27, 2002

The hydraulic supply is no big deal on a Power Trac. On an implement such as a snow blade with power angle, we just disconnect the quick connect locking cylinder hydraulics after it is locked and use them to power the power angle cylinder for the plow.

On and inplement such as a box blade, we could do the same thing and use the quick attach hydraulics to power the roll hydraulics.

MossRoad · Nov 27, 2002

Really, all I think it would take is a hydraulic roll mechanism with a flat plate on each end. The plate closest to the tractor would be a quick attach female plate and the plate away from the tractor would be a male quick attach mechanism, complete with hydraulic locking cylinder. That would be a complete, hydraulic roll unit.

A manual roll unit would be much cheaper and easier, especially when adapting existing 3pt equipment to the PT. Just a flat plate on the side away from the tractor to be welded or bolted to the implement and a female quick attach plate on the end nearest the tractor. Roll could be set at several pre-determined angles with holes and a bolt.

Anonymous Poster · Nov 27, 2002

Hazmat,

As long as I'm dreaming,how about an inexpensive DC
gearmotor (from surplus outlet)working the threaded rod
that gives us our small angle deflection(+/-) through a dash mounted dp3t switch (spring centered-off)
similar to a "trim" switch on an outboard motor. It's a 2-wire
hook up while attaching implement...Electrics are my comfort level while I know there is a Hydraulic "solution" here too (Charlie).