Is the Cyber Truck a Flop?

[CloverKnollFarms]

Still, when Europe ended the subsidies, sales plummeted. I cannot imagine increasing the price to the consumer by $7500 per vehicle would have no effect.

Even used EVs benefitted from a $4000 credit. That market will likely soften dramatically too

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Interesting enough, when the US government pumped a ton of money into the economy and peoples pockets during COVID, most things sold well.

 

[ultrarunner]

The biggest subsidy Tesla ever received was their $0.5B ATVM loan, which they paid back 9 years early in 2013. Ford received 12 times that amount, $5.9B, and never repaid it. Nissan received $1.4B, and repaid it in 2017.

The ATVM definitely helped them get off the ground, but it was a loan, not a subsidy.

After that, there were the customer incentives to buy EV's, which was applicable to the first 200k vehicles sold by each manufacturer. This was $7500 paid to each buyer, not to the auto makers. Tesla crossed that threshold way back in 2018, so none of the vehicles they sold in 2019 - 2022 were incentivized by any consumer tax credit, and those were some of their biggest growth years.

For some stupid reason, the credit was extended after 2022, which seems unnecessary at this point. There are plenty of interviews to be found, in which Elon was arguing against the extension of this tax credit, saying it was a stupid waste of taxpayer money. Of course, he knew it would benefit his competitors much more than it would benefit Tesla, at that point in time.

Any specifics on State and Local Incentives?

 

[ultrarunner]

Still, when Europe ended the subsidies, sales plummeted. I cannot imagine increasing the price to the consumer by $7500 per vehicle would have no effect.

Even used EVs benefitted from a $4000 credit. That market will likely soften dramatically too

Leasing is a push right now on EV and several have picked up very attractive lease rates in the California market.

A huge incentive around here is single occupancy carpool lane access and reduced tolling fees which are going away…

I know Docs that bought because of this… being able to use carpool express lanes as a single occupant is a big deal in Bay Area traffic for those that need to get around.

 

[NoTrespassing]

It doesn’t matter what business you’re in or what your politics is. Display of political positions will turn away half your prospective customers. Not smart.

Black Rifle Coffee
UFC
Hobby Lobby
Chick-fil-A

 

[deezler]

With the EV tax credits expiring... It will be interesting to see if people will actually pay for an EV without tax payer subsidies.

I don't think the CT was eligible for those due to it's high cost

Correct, the CT didn't get the credit.

And yes I am definitely watching the market intently to see how EV sales continue. The surge in September EV sales being reported now indicates it will likely cool off substantially for Q4.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Correct, the CT didn't get the credit.

And yes I am definitely watching the market intently to see how EV sales continue. The surge in September EV sales being reported now indicates it will likely cool off substantially for Q4.

People trying to get that tax credit

 

[WinterDeere]

Any specifics on State and Local Incentives?

I live in PA... a state usually pretty light on most incentive programs. I suspect CA and New England may have had them, tho.

 

[jyoutz]

Black Rifle Coffee
UFC
Hobby Lobby
Chick-fil-A

They have their customer base. Still what I said is correct. They also have people who won’t patronize them. If you’re in business, why wouldn’t you want everyone to buy your product?

 

[NoTrespassing]

They have their customer base. Still what I said is correct. They also have people who won’t patronize them. If you’re in business, why wouldn’t you want everyone to buy your product?

Maybe because they can get a large enough percentage of one side as to offset the loss on the other side? The companies I named are very successful. Could they be more successful? Maybe, maybe not.

As a general statement I believe your premise is correct, but I don't think your position should be considered definitive in all cases.

I think Elon's political involvement hurt the Tesla brand. On the other hand, I'm not sure how much he cares.

 

[EddieWalker]

Not sure if it's for real, but I just watched a YouTube video that claims Telsa is working on a $16,000 car that will use a new type of battery that's based on Aluminum. If this happens, I would thing very, VERY seriously about getting one. I'm not holding my breath since YouTube isn't very reliable, but it would be nice if it happened.

 

[WinterDeere]

YouTube isn't very reliable

Neither are Musk's timeline or pricing forecasts.

I understand setting lofty goals, but geez... you'd think he'd step back into reality at some point!

 

[NoTrespassing]

Neither are Musk's timeline or pricing forecasts.

I understand setting lofty goals, but geez... you'd think he'd step back into reality at some point!

Yea, Musk reminds me of a couple people I work with. I understand being positive but overly positive in business can be as bad as being negative.

Over promising and under delivering can result in the "boy who cried wolf" scenario.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

Why sell a car for $16k, when people are HAPPY to pay say $25k for a NEW car.

You don't want everyone buying your car, you can't build enough cars, and therefore leaving a lot of money on the table. If you have more customers than you can service, your prices are too low.

 

[EddieWalker]

I can't pretend to understand how Musk thinks, or what he is trying to do. But I can appreciate how successful he has been at everything he does, so I'm taking a wait and see approach to this.

I used to think that a battery powered car was silly. Now I'm thinking that it would be very nice to have one for running errands to town and never having to stop at a gas station every again.

 

[NoTrespassing]

Why sell a car for $16k, when people are HAPPY to pay say $25k for a NEW car.

You don't want everyone buying your car, you can't build enough cars, and therefore leaving a lot of money on the table. If you have more customers than you can service, your prices are too low.

And what would the margin be on a $16K car, 10%? So, you make $1,600 per vehicle sold while others are making 4 or 5 times that per vehicle. You better sell a lot of those little cars.

 

[NoTrespassing]

I can't pretend to understand how Musk thinks, or what he is trying to do. But I can appreciate how successful he has been at everything he does, so I'm taking a wait and see approach to this.

I used to think that a battery powered car was silly. Now I'm thinking that it would be very nice to have one for running errands to town and never having to stop at a gas station every again.

Same here, an EV would be great for my wife. If and when we replace her SUV, we will be considering one.

 

[KennyG]

Neither are Musk's timeline or pricing forecasts.

I understand setting lofty goals, but geez... you'd think he'd step back into reality at some point!

It's pretty hard to find anyone today that under promises and over delivers. However, given that Musk has put more electric cars on the road than all the other companies combined and that he launches about 90% of the satellites at this point, I'd say he's been fairly successful.

 

[ning]

Yea, Musk reminds me of a couple people I work with. I understand being positive but overly positive in business can be as bad as being negative.

Over promising and under delivering can result in the "boy who cried wolf" scenario.

Apparently it can result in multi-hundred-billion-dollar, and potentially trillion-dollar, payouts, so I'd expect it to continue

 

[NoTrespassing]

Apparently it can result in multi-hundred-billion-dollar, and potentially trillion-dollar, payouts, so I'd expect it to continue

In Musk's case yes, he's a very successful businessman, in my coworkers case not so much. Around here it's a good way to lose orders.