Is there any way to determine the proper amount of counter weight?

[CincyFlyer]

One thing to consider: with the increased density (over concrete) of steel, iron, or lead, you can put the weight low (better!) and even as wide (either up to, or behind, the back tires) to make the tractor more stable. I used a Titan ballast box, filled the bottom with chunks of iron, and the remainder with sand and concrete. Likely weighs ~800 lbs, which is plenty for most uses.

 

[jeff9366]

I think Jeff is only considering the amount of ballast needed for safe loader use, I.E. keeping enough weight on the rear tires for safe operation/control.
I will take x number lbs to keep the rear tires on the ground. It "might" be possible to put enough weight in just the tires to do that. Or it may take additional on the 3pt too, but if ONLY on the 3pt, it will be more if the rear tires are not weighted. .
One of the advantages of weight on the 3pt is it does lighten the load the front axle is carrying. Weight only in the rear tires does not do this at all.

YES.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[LD1]

Tire ballast or wheel weights should never be substituted for proper counterweight.

Sure, it helps stability, and will indeed keep the rear end down, but doing that at the expense of rear weight increases the load the front axle sees.

IE....if your counterweight on the 3ph alone is not heavy enough to keep the back down....and your solution is to load the tires.....you have just increased the potential load that your front axle gets.

So there shouldn't be two figures.....rather one. And that be enough on the 3ph to be able to max your front loader, and still keep plenty of weight on the back.

From there, if you want loaded tires to maximize traction, or pulling heavy draft loads with loader off, go for it.

The 1526 is a relatively short tractor for it's lift capacity, and keeps the loader load tucked in close. Seat of the pants I think 1000# would keep it planted, but 1500# would make your front in like it alot better

 

[Rock Crawler]

As you intend building a Three Point Hitch counterbalance, I would put all the weight there. Pound for pound, Three Point Hitch weight, which is CANTILEVERED behind the rear axle, will be more effective than tire ballast on the rear axle. There is really no reason to ballast rear tires too, given your focus on FEL lifts.

His question and my re-explaining it is because you clearly were talking about cantilever leverage from a 3 point stand point. You really made it appear that you were most interested in helping him to get the benefits of the lever arm BEHIND THE REAR AXLE.

You also clearly stated that the tires being filled does in fact have an effect on the counterbalance weight, something that the great majority of us acknowledge is being used to reduce stress loading on the front axle. That was why the question was raised asking why.

Counterbalance with ballasted rear tires will be one figure.

Counterbalance with air filled rear tires will be another figure.

Are your rear tires ballasted?

So his question really branches back to the quote immediately above:

He is asking why the counterbalance requirement changes if the tires are weighted or not? I would love to hear that response as well being that I don't see a weighted tire as having any effect at all on the consideration of weight required to reduce front axle loading with frequent use of a front end loader.

I'm just trying to read the comments and better understand the reason the statement was made that the weighted tires do in fact matter in calculating the cantilevered counter weight. In my minds eye, I'm not able to put that last quoted statement together in a way that seems reasonable.

 

[rkidd]

When I got my Kubota B2650, I also wanted to fab up a nice compact ballast box for doing my snow plowing and other work. Looking thru forums found around 70% of loader lifting capacity as a good starting point. With mine I fabbed up the frame and could add lengths of railroad track I had got that weighed 100lbs apiece. I started with 500lbs and would test with a full bucket of heavy clay driving around on uneven ground to see how well the tractor stayed planted. I ended up with 700lbs, but if I was going to do alot of real heavy loader work I would add another 100.bs My loader is rated about 1100lbs, so around that percentage. As Jeff9366 and LD1 said for you, 1000 to 1500lbs, with 1200lbs being around 75%. As they also said there can be other factors for different tractors, but should get you in the ballpark.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Concrete weighs close to 4K per cubic yard. That is around 150# per cubic foot. This box filled with concrete will get you to 927#.

Ballast Box 3 Point Category 1 Tractor Attachment

 

[TheMan419]

It is because the rear axle is the pivot point.

Think of a teeter totter, with you over the center pivot.

Hard to move the teeter totter with weight near the center pivot. Easy to move as you shift weight out.......

Cantilevered weight, as above, to the rear of the rear axle is much more effective pound for pound than weight centered on/over the rear axle which is NOT weight cantilevered.

Over rear axle weight does not leverage front end. Behind rear axle weight DOES leverage front end.

Except the rear is NOT the (only) pivot point. If you have unfilled tires, no weight box etc. Pick up a load that is the max your loader can lift. Rear tires are going to come off the ground. At that point the FRONT is the pivot point. Load the tires and you can lift more before the rears come off the ground. Given the size of the tires you likely cannot put enough weight in them to solve the problem. Thus the need for a weight box or implement hanging on the 3 point.

If you are trying to lessen the load on the front axle the rear is the pivot point and filled tires will not help.

 

[cat fever]

Roger it sounds like lots of good advice is coming from this thread.
The advantage to building your own box is you can design it however you want.

Here is the one I built. Close to 1600 lbs.

 

[Roger66]

Yes, Lots of good suggestions in this thread.

I really want to keep it compact. Like one of the below designs. The obvious advantage of the extra leverage in my use is out weighed by being able to maneuver in tight quarters. I would like to integrate a trailer hitch into the design.

Looking at a design like one of the below links. I may add some scrap steel and or lead to the box to add density and keep it compact. Just think it would only take 2 cubic feet of gold to do the trick! Of course if I had 2 cubic feet of gold I'd have staff to do my work for me.



http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...80201-ballast-box-design-image-2253818538-jpg

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...947970-ballast-box-design-counter-weight1-jpg

 

[jeff9366]

RE: Titan Ballast Box in Post #26.

If you cost your vehicle travel at 60 cents per mile for a car or 75 cents per mile for a truck, I do not see how you could build a ballast box, prep it and paint it much cheaper than the $259 Titan price, unless shipping is high. Running about to assemble the materials would run up some vehicle miles.

- Titan Box Dimensions: 25 1/2" x 24 1/4" x 15 3/4"

Steel is a beefy 1/4" thick.

Trailer hitch receiver is integrated into the Titan design.