Issues already? New mx5400 steering issue.

[KWentling]

I have to agree with LDI's assessment. The "loose" bolts are normal. I personally snug them up to the point of contact, but it's not really necessary. Only that the nylon part of the lock nut is engaged in the thread. The 3-point grease points only need a small amount of grease and once a year is plenty. The steering video looks completely normal to me, but a free wheeling steering wheel with the engine off isn't normal. I know my BX won't freewheel and can be steered with the engine off with some difficulty and it feels notchy. Can't say I have ever tried that with my M7060. As far as the Larsen video of Dougy breaking the steering pedestal off the JD combine, I would expect that to be a much more sophisticated system than our little open center hydrostatic tractors. By the way Chet is Dougo's son, and Chet's wife Nikkie passed away yesterday of cancer at 25 years of age. Sad deal.

 

[s219]

Attached are pics of the zero fittings on the 3ph and bolts on the loader (the ones with the lock nuts). You can see one that’s still loose on the bottom.

Good gracious, those bolts are supposed to be loose, do not bother tightening them. They are serving the same purpose (only stronger and more permanent) as a cotter pin. They are not supposed to be tight.

The grease fittings on your top and side links are there for convenience. If you use them, be sure the turnbuckle is screwed all the way together, so the grease gets on the threads but does not fill the chamber/barrel between the two threaded end sections. Otherwise you will have a very difficult time screwing the ends in.

 

[Michael In Tennessee]

Experiment Round 2:

I was able to replicate your steering exactly. It rained last night, so my 3/8 minus gravel is a bit heavier. Loaded to overfilling and the loader could still lift with ease. But, my steering, without forward/back motion, was identical you yours. Just a little movement and it steers just fine.

At this point, I'm going to call it "working as designed". I guess, in normal operation, I've never bothered to steer without backing up with a loaded bucket.

Steering without engine running: Parked on concrete. Front wheels will not turn. A mild clicking sensation is felt in the wheel. You can just sense a little back and forth movement in the tire, but no permanent offset.

 

[deelowe]

Check the wheel lug nuts and wheel disk to rim bolts. Dealer installed. Had rear click that sounded like axle trouble once. Ended up being some loose disk to rims bolts.

Experiment Round 2:

I was able to replicate your steering exactly. It rained last night, so my 3/8 minus gravel is a bit heavier. Loaded to overfilling and the loader could still lift with ease. But, my steering, without forward/back motion, was identical you yours. Just a little movement and it steers just fine.

At this point, I'm going to call it "working as designed". I guess, in normal operation, I've never bothered to steer without backing up with a loaded bucket.

Steering without engine running: Parked on concrete. Front wheels will not turn. A mild clicking sensation is felt in the wheel. You can just sense a little back and forth movement in the tire, but no permanent offset.

Thanks a ton. Seriously, that’s quite a bit of effort to go through just to provide me ease of mind. I’m leaning towards working as normal as well.

 

[Michael In Tennessee]

You are still under warranty and if you have KTAC you are insured as well. If it really breaks you are covered.

 

[kenlip]

After looking around some more, I’m guessing the steering runs off the same hydraulics as everything else. Did I break something already?

My MX5100 required topping up of the HST fluid (5 litres!) a short while after I started using it. The level has remained static since then.

 

[Henro]

Experiment Round 2:

I was able to replicate your steering exactly. It rained last night, so my 3/8 minus gravel is a bit heavier. Loaded to overfilling and the loader could still lift with ease. But, my steering, without forward/back motion, was identical you yours. Just a little movement and it steers just fine.

At this point, I'm going to call it "working as designed". I guess, in normal operation, I've never bothered to steer without backing up with a loaded bucket.

Steering without engine running: Parked on concrete. Front wheels will not turn. A mild clicking sensation is felt in the wheel. You can just sense a little back and forth movement in the tire, but no permanent offset.

In the first post, the OP said his steering wheel continues to turn when the wheels stop turning.

Just to clarify, are you saying that this happens with your tractor too?

in other words, are you able to keep turning the steering wheel when the front tires stop moving left or right? (as if the steering wheel were slipping on the shaft, although not the case here)

 

[Ford850]

^^ That's normal with hydro steering... the steering wheel continues to creep without the wheels turning. That's why it's a little awkward to use a steering wheel knob on newer tractors since that knob's position will be constantly changing.

 

[Henro]

^^ That's normal with hydro steering... the steering wheel continues to creep without the wheels turning. That's why it's a little awkward to use a steering wheel knob on newer tractors since that knob's position will be constantly changing.

I checked this with my BX2200 this morning. Without a loader I never have reason to push the steering to its limits, since if I hit a travel stop when turning, I stop turning.

Anyway, when continuing to try to turn the steering wheel after hitting the travel stop on the BX2200, I noticed that the steering wheel will continue to turn slowly, in a bit of a jerky fashion, like a pressure relief valve was tripping and allowing fluid to return to tank.

Looking into it further, I see the steering controller on my BX has a built in pressure relief valve. So this much makes sense.

I THINK I got the wrong impression when reading the OP's initial post. My impression was that the steering wheel continued to turn with about the same (or less) effort than what was needed to turn the wheels before the wheels stopped turning.

In my case, the amount of effort changes. Once the travel stop is hit, making the steering wheel to continue to turn takes more effort. A noticeable amount more.

I believe the conclusion that the OP's situation is normal is probably correct. At least if the steering wheel is not free wheeling when he experiences the issue.

 

[5030]

Much ado about nothing that isn't normal for hydrostatic steering.

 

[Henro]

Much ado about nothing that isn't normal for hydrostatic steering.

I think this actually is something that IS normal for HST steering.

AND something that is of interest to those of us who never thought about the issue...it never hurts to learn about something never thought about previously.

 

[deelowe]

I checked this with my BX2200 this morning. Without a loader I never have reason to push the steering to its limits, since if I hit a travel stop when turning, I stop turning.

Anyway, when continuing to try to turn the steering wheel after hitting the travel stop on the BX2200, I noticed that the steering wheel will continue to turn slowly, in a bit of a jerky fashion, like a pressure relief valve was tripping and allowing fluid to return to tank.

Looking into it further, I see the steering controller on my BX has a built in pressure relief valve. So this much makes sense.

I THINK I got the wrong impression when reading the OP's initial post. My impression was that the steering wheel continued to turn with about the same (or less) effort than what was needed to turn the wheels before the wheels stopped turning.

In my case, the amount of effort changes. Once the travel stop is hit, making the steering wheel to continue to turn takes more effort. A noticeable amount more.

I believe the conclusion that the OP's situation is normal is probably correct. At least if the steering wheel is not free wheeling when he experiences the issue.

Correct. I was misremembering the behavior when I posted. Either that or the issue is somehow heat related. I corrected this statement later in the thread.

 

[deelowe]

Much ado about nothing that isn't normal for hydrostatic steering.

In my defense, this all started when I couldn’t back out of a spot in the woods bc my wheels wouldn’t turn. Hence the concern.

 

[Henro]

In my defense, this all started when I couldn’t back out of a spot in the woods bc my wheels wouldn’t turn. Hence the concern.

No defense needed. If we all knew everything about everything, then we would not need to ask questions, would we?

But most of us do need to ask questions...

 

[loggin]

Not trying to sell John Deere but here is an interesting video. Check out the video at 1 minute 7 seconds. I have a Kubota mx4700 myself with the same steering issue you describe. Seems they under designed the steering mechanism. I have noticed that in my case it is slightly worse on hills and have therefore slightly overfilled my hydraulic fluid.. Seems to help a bit. Hope this helps!!

 

[5030]

Interesting Keep in mid that JD plastic hoods crack too. I have a power reverser and 2 speed PTO on my Kubota's but then they are M series large frame. I agree, for loader work, it's hard to beat a power reverser or as Kubota calls it, Hydraulic shuttle and no clutch adjustments on either of mine because neither have a dry clutch. Everything from the flywheel / damper plate back is hydraulic. Never owned a dry clutch tractor. Just something down the road (and hours) that will need replaced

 

[LD1]

Not trying to sell John Deere but here is an interesting video. Check out the video at 1 minute 7 seconds. I have a Kubota mx4700 myself with the same steering issue you describe. Seems they under designed the steering mechanism. I have noticed that in my case it is slightly worse on hills and have therefore slightly overfilled my hydraulic fluid.. Seems to help a bit. Hope this helps!!

The video at 1.07 does indeed show what is relevant to this thread

But I gotta say I hate when MFG's (ALL OF THEM) make video comparisons that are totally un-realistic.

The 5-series deere is comparable to an M-kubota. The MX should be compared with 4000 series. But then again....you cannot use HP as a sole method of comparison as deere is clearly trying. (then they compare to a gear kuobta) and say how much better the power reverser on the deere is for loader work. So stupid......ONE of those two tractors IS offfered with a HST

Maybe kubota should do a video comparing deeres 2038 to the GL4060....or even compare the X590 deere to the L2501 kubota. Would make as much sense as their comparison

 

[DonaldP]

That is NOT how hydraulics work. There is NO demand to "hold" the load up in the loader. The loader is NOT taking fluid away from the steering ability when you are NOT moving the loader.

Yes I understand, I’ll have to verify if that issue occurs just seconds after lifting a load while it’s in standstill, or while lifting the load and turning, in reverse to back out of picking up the load.
Thank you