"It's Easier to Bury a Tradition Than a Child"

[ultrarunner]

I get called every year at least once... never tried to get out of it and I'm always sent home by one of the lawyers during selection.

What I don't like is all the new security at the court house... take off your shoes, take off your belt... got into a mild argument with the deputy because he said I didn't hand over my cell phone as required... but I don't have a cell phone, I don't own a cell phone.

I got a special inspection because I didn't hand over the cell phone which I don't have.

I do have a work pager and the extensive sign coming into the court house said nothing about pagers... go figure.

They also don't pay for the first day of reporting and they say parking is very limited so don't expect to find parking in the area... do the right thing a take public transportation?

 

[patrick_g]

Let me see if I understand... We hold these truths to be self evident.

The SYSTEM is messed up. It is absolutely unequivocally IMPOSSIBLE to fix it. It is futile to attempt to fix the system. THEY just didn't and aren't getting it RIGHT.

It is entirely fair and reasonable that anyone should ONLY complain about the state of the system with no moral imperative to do anything but complain.

In fact the system is so messed up that any and all THINKING folks will find themselves above it, too good to participate in the underpinnings of the system such as serving on juries with the "great unwashed." Gee, it is so hard to light a single candle that I will sit in the dark and complain.

If anyone impugns your sloth then it is OK to employ an ad hominem.

Reality like morality is of our own definition. There are no intrinsic values just situational ones that rationalize our position du jour where it may sharply deviate from a desirable position de jure (or de facto.)

There is more, much more I think I am learning in this thread but given my extreme shortcomings and lack of ability to read and understand I do not feel competent to comment further at this time.

Pat

 

[AlanB]

Thanks you guys for teaching me a new word

Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the FWIW corner of this discussion, I kind of enjoy reading it, unfortunately I find myself agreeing with a lot of what is said on both sides.

Kind of a chicken and egg discussion though really from my perspective.

 

[patrick_g]

Thanks you guys for teaching me a new word

Oh, and Alan, the sloth to which I refer has no toes.

Pat

 

[gemini5362]

Let me see if I understand... We hold these truths to be self evident.

The SYSTEM is messed up. It is absolutely unequivocally IMPOSSIBLE to fix it. It is futile to attempt to fix the system. THEY just didn't and aren't getting it RIGHT.

It is entirely fair and reasonable that anyone should ONLY complain about the state of the system with no moral imperative to do anything but complain.

In fact the system is so messed up that any and all THINKING folks will find themselves above it, too good to participate in the underpinnings of the system such as serving on juries with the "great unwashed." Gee, it is so hard to light a single candle that I will sit in the dark and complain.

If anyone impugns your sloth then it is OK to employ an ad hominem.

Reality like morality is of our own definition. There are no intrinsic values just situational ones that rationalize our position du jour where it may sharply deviate from a desirable position de jure (or de facto.)

There is more, much more I think I am learning in this thread but given my extreme shortcomings and lack of ability to read and understand I do not feel competent to comment further at this time.

Pat

LOL I was curious to see how you would reply to that post

 

[gemini5362]

As you mention, in SC judges are not elected. I actually prefer it that way. Elected judges have a long history of decisions favoring those who get them elected. Of course appointments have their own problems too.

But civics classes and your recent web research aside, that is hardly the point. The point is that 1) great inertia exists within the system. Good things remain good and bad things remain bad and political activism does little or nothing to change that. This is hardly a secret. And 2) You have no idea what I have actually done in regard to political involvement. So criticism that those of us who complain are ONLY complaining is unfounded. Its an assumption and nothing more and in that regard needs to be dropped. And 3) even if I/we were not doing whatever it is that you or anyone else thinks we OUGHT to be doing, that changes nothing. It is perfectly within my purview as a free citizen to be a critic of the system and nothing more. There is no moral or ethical code that says a citizen is required to be an activist if he wishes to criticize the system. In fact, the idea is perfectly ridiculous. And furthermore, good, thoughtful and public criticism is far more likely to have an affect than writing your local congressman.

And remember, I'm not the one who has resorted to labels and name calling (shirkers?!?!?). So I have nothing to defend. I have have not made any ad hominem accusations.

I kind of thought that civics class was the point since you made certain to imply that i am ignorant of the democratic process. Maybe I dont understand what ad hominem means since i felt like the point you were making was my lack of understanding of the process I was discussing. That kind of sounds like an ad hominem attack to me. I am just an ozark mountain red neck type of guy without any advanced type of degree but I think if I had made the comments about the judicial system that you had made and someone pointed out my error I would have just apologized for being wrong and went on. I would not have decided that it was all irelevant. Of course i dont feel like mine is the only opinion that matters and I am sorta obstreperous. However I did stay in a holday inn the other night.

 

[gemini5362]

Thanks you guys for teaching me a new word

Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the FWIW corner of this discussion, I kind of enjoy reading it, unfortunately I find myself agreeing with a lot of what is said on both sides.

Kind of a chicken and egg discussion though really from my perspective.

h

alan just in case here is the link
obstreperous - Wiktionary

 

[AlanB]

h

alan just in case here is the link
obstreperous - Wiktionary

LMAO,,,,,

Thanks, I was about to go look it up then I saw your next post

 

[unreconstructed]

Compared to my 2720, my wife thinks the 5203 is obstreperus and therefore the 5203 must not be running whilst she sleepeth.

 

[patrick_g]

I kind of thought that civics class was the point since you made certain to imply that i am ignorant of the democratic process. Maybe I dont understand what ad hominem means since i felt like the point you were making was my lack of understanding of the process I was discussing. That kind of sounds like an ad hominem attack to me. I am just an ozark mountain red neck type of guy without any advanced type of degree but I think if I had made the comments about the judicial system that you had made and someone pointed out my error I would have just apologized for being wrong and went on. I would not have decided that it was all irelevant. Of course i dont feel like mine is the only opinion that matters and I am sorta obstreperous. However I did stay in a holday inn the other night.

Thomas, I liked the... "I'm not the one who has resorted to labels and name calling (shirkers?!?!?)"

Sorry for your taking a hit over that. I thought I was the one who cried, SHIRKER and sloth and such. Not ad hominems. Not labels in a pejorative way but honest attempts to directly use plain language to call a spade a spade. Not politically correct, obviously, but intended as the plain unvarnished truth.

Talk about situationalism! I was previously unaware that the intended meaning of the framers of many of our nation's seminal documents is subject to being reinvented to suit someones preference du jour. How ignorant of me to think the original intent of the writers was important. Why surely when they wrote peers they didn't actually mean peers as the term was used then both denotatively and conotatively but in their extreme presience they meant whatever some modern day situationalist means it to mean when it is convenient.

I regret having wasted a semester of my 9th grade in a civics class as it tends to prevent my "correct" understanding of things nuvo-civic. Lets see now... all men are not created equal and have NO inalienable rights. Yeah, I think I am catching on.

What a firestorm erupts when someone's pursuit of happiness is in danger of being curtailed by a higher calling. What Herculean efforts in sophistry come forth in defense of dodging duties that are the reasonable due and obligation of a citizen. I can understand a freeloading illegal alien not taking time out to do anything FOR this country but instead milk it like a cash cow and mail most of the largess across the border. I must have not gotten the memo that canceled out all civic responsibility.

I haven't got it all figured out yet but I will try to gain an adequate understanding such that mandatory reeducation camp will not be required in order that I may escape detention. Luckily there is no current equipment and methodology of sufficient capability to detect me as a "thought criminal" an archaic throwback to earlier less enlightened times.


Pat