"It's Easier to Bury a Tradition Than a Child"

[gemini5362]

I get the point. There are people who are going to take that post about the accident you worked and use that as an example to prove their point. I wanted to point out that their are a lot more dangerous things than allowing kids to ride on tractors.

When I was a kid my dad was going on a dirt road down to another pasture. He had to go around a corner and the truck hit a bump. He was not going very fast but the bump through me into the truck door which came open and I fell out of the truck. Luckily the corner had the truck turning away from me. I dont get on forums and talk about how everyone that lets their kids ride in a truck are taking unnecessary risks.

 

[turbo36]

I get the point. There are people who are going to take that post about the accident you worked and use that as an example to prove their point. I wanted to point out that their are a lot more dangerous things than allowing kids to ride on tractors.

When I was a kid my dad was going on a dirt road down to another pasture. He had to go around a corner and the truck hit a bump. He was not going very fast but the bump through me into the truck door which came open and I fell out of the truck. Luckily the corner had the truck turning away from me. I dont get on forums and talk about how everyone that lets their kids ride in a truck are taking unnecessary risks.

I think you are missing the point completely, you make the case that all things are dangerous and therefore you just have to accept the danger and the consequence without changing your behavior. You seem to be making the case that because you can point to an activity that is more dangerous then the one you are doing somehow it makes the current activity less dangerous and therefore acceptable.

The whole idea of civilization and the "enlightenment" of man is to recognize the difference between what we can control and what we can't. Your example of your own experience points out this "enlightenment" because the advancements in auto safety have greatly reduced the number of children falling out of cars.

The common theme on this board seems to be that every time someone gets hurt it was due to a lack of "common sense", well what is common sense?
Is it something we are born with? Given to us by God?
Most of the knowledge we have acquired (and passed off as "common sense") really is just learned either by experience or schooling.

In the military they stress training, educating and behavior modification not "common sense". The last thing you want to do under fire is to try to remember what you are supposed to do. You must react without thinking and you must use practiced behavior to be successful.

 

[gemini5362]

I think you are missing the point completely, you make the case that all things are dangerous and therefore you just have to accept the danger and the consequence without changing your behavior. You seem to be making the case that because you can point to an activity that is more dangerous then the one you are doing somehow it makes the current activity less dangerous and therefore acceptable.

The whole idea of civilization and the "enlightenment" of man is to recognize the difference between what we can control and what we can't. Your example of your own experience points out this "enlightenment" because the advancements in auto safety have greatly reduced the number of children falling out of cars.

The common theme on this board seems to be that every time someone gets hurt it was due to a lack of "common sense", well what is common sense?
Is it something we are born with? Given to us by God?
Most of the knowledge we have acquired (and passed off as "common sense") really is just learned either by experience or schooling.

In the military they stress training, educating and behavior modification not "common sense". The last thing you want to do under fire is to try to remember what you are supposed to do. You must react without thinking and you must use practiced behavior to be successful.

First of all I do not know if you have been in the military or not. I do know that I have and I dont need a lecture on military training. I have had a lot of it over the years.

Second you are just being insulting. Because I happen to disagree with you does not mean I am not getting it. If anyone is not getting what I am trying to say it would be you. What I am saying is that everything you do and I literally mean everything has dangers associated with it. There are some activities that you most people would not do because it is more danger than they would submit themselves or a loved one to. The people that do dangerous things may have common sense they have hopefully acknowledged the dangers and feel that the reward is worth the risk. What I am saying here is that the people in this thread that are so against the idea of anyone taking a risk of having passengers on a tractor are trying to instill their idea into others by quoting what can happen. I was using an example of what happened to me in a truck to point out that accidents can happen in a pickup but I dont see anyone saying we should not carry our children in pickups.

Please dont say because I disagree with you that I dont get it. YOU really have no idea of what I get or dont get. You have your opinion and I am glad that you do. I also have my own opinion and it is not dependent on enabling by you.

 

[Rara Avis]

When I was a kid my dad was going on a dirt road down to another pasture. He had to go around a corner and the truck hit a bump. He was not going very fast but the bump through me into the truck door which came open and I fell out of the truck. Luckily the corner had the truck turning away from me. I dont get on forums and talk about how everyone that lets their kids ride in a truck are taking unnecessary risks.[/QUOTE]

Well, actually you could post that riding in a pickup WITHOUT buckling your seatbelt is an unnecessary risk...

 

[gemini5362]

When I was a kid my dad was going on a dirt road down to another pasture. He had to go around a corner and the truck hit a bump. He was not going very fast but the bump through me into the truck door which came open and I fell out of the truck. Luckily the corner had the truck turning away from me. I dont get on forums and talk about how everyone that lets their kids ride in a truck are taking unnecessary risks.[/QUOTE]

Well, actually you could post that riding in a pickup WITHOUT buckling your seatbelt is an unnecessary risk...

I was kind of waiting for this comment. I am actually not suprised that you made it. I am 55 years old I consider being a kid somewhere along the lines of 40 years ago. Actually i believe I was about 7 or so when it happened so that would have been about 48 years ago. 48 years ago not too many trucks if any had seat belts. As a matter of fact I believe in Arkansas that if the truck did not have seat belts as original equipment you do not have to have them in your truck. Actually at this point probably the best thing to say is that I will take my grandchildren for rides on my tractor in my cab taking what I consider the necessary precautions. If you do not want to take your children/grandchildren/neighborhood children/ orphans or whatever on your tractor that is your right to do so. I wont call you names and i would apreciate your not telling me what a bad grandparent I am by doing that.

 

[Blagadan]

If you have raised your children in a sheltered safe little bubble, you better hope that is where they will be going to live when they grow up, because that is all you have trained them for... Knowledge and resposibility are two of the most empowering things you can give your children.

Thats it right there.... that, is the paragraph that sums it up for me.


I disagree totally with the purpose of this thread. "Its easier to bury a tradition than a child"... I think you worded this wrong. You seem to be scare-mongering. I have kids and I sure dont plan on burying any of them any time soon.
I make sure my kids know the rules. If they dont know I teach them. If they ignore the rules, they get scorned and sent home. Sure they have bruised themselves. Hit their finger with a hammer, fallen off a stationary trailer, whatever.... but I make sure they learn for themselves. I try to provide the safest environment for them to learn and grow. I teach them right and wrong and hope I have done a good job. I make safety paramount when I am working. There is no difference wether the kids are with me or not. When they are with me, I treat them no differently than if they were an adult co-worker. They MUST behave sensibly and have the right safety gear on or they dont belong. Safety glasses, gloves, safety belts.... whatever is needed to keep them safe. I dont think its right to say "Keep children away from tractors". If you are their father-figure and they see you driving a tractor, they will want to emulate you. I say take the kids for a ride, but make sure its in a safe mannor. I dont necessarily agree with having a kid on the fender for hours at a time, it WILL get boring for them. Thats when the danger is most likely. Knowing and setting the limits is YOUR challenge. If YOU are unable to deal with this then yeah, maybe you should not have your children out with you.
I have friends that prefer their kids to be indoors playing with their computers or watching TV while they are out working on their property... I find that very sad. I enjoy having my kids with me. I love answering their questions or helping them to drive a nail... God knows they dont stay young for long, enjoy them. My kids are 7 and 9 years of age and they have more common sense than a lot of adults I know... I think I have done well so far...

 

[turbo36]

First of all I do not know if you have been in the military or not. I do know that I have and I dont need a lecture on military training. I have had a lot of it over the years.

The problem with these posts is that when written people can read in much more into them then what is intended. The military example was just that, an example, I could have used a firemen , policeman, or emergency room doctor as well. No offense intended. By the way do you agree or disagree with my example?

Second you are just being insulting.

No insult intended, but it's pretty hard to debate if you don't take a contrary position.

Because I happen to disagree with you does not mean I am not getting it. If anyone is not getting what I am trying to say it would be you. What I am saying is that everything you do and I literally mean everything has dangers associated with it. There are some activities that you most people would not do because it is more danger than they would submit themselves or a loved one to. The people that do dangerous things may have common sense they have hopefully acknowledged the dangers and feel that the reward is worth the risk. What I am saying here is that the people in this thread that are so against the idea of anyone taking a risk of having passengers on a tractor are trying to instill their idea into others by quoting what can happen. I was using an example of what happened to me in a truck to point out that accidents can happen in a pickup but I dont see anyone saying we should not carry our children in pickups.

I still think you miss my point. I know there is a risk to everything in life, I understand that very clearly. But I don't believe you can not make the argument since all things have risk therefore I should do all things and just accept the outcome as inevitable. People have choices and children should not have to pay for their parents bad choices. (This is not meant personally because I don't know how you raised your children or if you even have children)

Please dont say because I disagree with you that I dont get it. YOU really have no idea of what I get or dont get. You have your opinion and I am glad that you do. I also have my own opinion and it is not dependent on enabling by you.

I was simply stating that I disagree with what you wrote.

 

[gemini5362]

The problem with these posts is that when written people can read in much more into them then what is intended. The military example was just that, an example, I could have used a firemen , policeman, or emergency room doctor as well. No offense intended. By the way do you agree or disagree with my example?



No insult intended, but it's pretty hard to debate if you don't take a contrary position.



I still think you miss my point. I know there is a risk to everything in life, I understand that very clearly. But I don't believe you can not make the argument since all things have risk therefore I should do all things and just accept the outcome as inevitable. People have choices and children should not have to pay for their parents bad choices. (This is not meant personally because I don't know how you raised your children or if you even have children)


I was simply stating that I disagree with what you wrote.

ok let me try to answer your question about the military. Actually I dont agree with it. Possibly the marines have that attitude I know from hearing my brothers experience when he was in boot camp that they go to great lengths to train you to just react. I always thought that was having something to do with charging beach heads where the enemy has had years to get ready for you to come ashore. Not knocking the marine corps and do not know that much about it other than talking with my brother. I was in the navy and I often felt that common sense was something that was required. We drilled constantly to know how to handle emergencies or war but we still relied on common sense. Let me give a small example of what I consider common sense. On a ship at sea fire is one of the ultimate concerns. Everyone takes fire fighting training. If you suspect there is a fire in a compartment you would expect to battle it as quickly as possible to get it containted. Common sense would have you check the door for heat before opening it to make sure you dont open a hatch and have it slam into you.


I have 2 children I did have three for a very short period but we lost one and I got the non enviable experience of burying one of my children. I also have two step children from my second marriage.

I am not sure how you get the impression I am advocating doing everything and because it has risks just accepting the inviteable. I believe I have said that people look at the risks involved in anything and then make the decision to accept those risks. I dont sky dive I think it is too risky but I have friends that love it. If one of my children wanted to do it I would give my reasons why I would not do it but he is an adult if he wanted to try it I would just chew my fingernails off till he was safely on the ground. I realize this post is mostly about children. I did not raise my children to be afraid to enjoy life. If my grandchild comes up to me and says I want a tractor ride I dont want to tell her no you cannot have one because it is unsafe. I dont feel that it is extraordinarily unsafe if you take the proper precautions especially if you have a cab. I do not know where it would stop. If every time she asked to do something I told her no because it was unsafe. I feel she would then grow up either missing out on the ability to enjoy life because she was afraid to try something new or would do dangerous things without contemplating them just to prove I am wrong. Who knows. I would rather her have the memories of riding on the tractor with grandpa when she is older. Once again let me reiterate that I am talking about carefully controlled conditions for taking her riding. Around the level part of my pasture or even on the gravel road by my house that has a limited amount of traffic and because of curves has slow moving traffic. I would not take her while I was brushhogging because to me that is too dangerous. If she asked I would explain the dangers of the moving blades etc and then take her on a ride when I got finished with that and had removed the brushhog from the tractor.

 

[RobJ]

I was kind of waiting for this comment. I am actually not suprised that you made it.

But was the door locked??!!??

Actually I spent many hours riding on a Deere fender while disking, planting, cultivating, spraying poisen! I had a good grip for a skinny kid!! Also went without the doors locked, no seatbelt, and a favorite place in the car was under the rear window, up on the dash with the rear speakers. Another good thing about being a skinny kid, I think we hit softer, never broken a bone so far. Tackle football and "kill the man with the ball" did take their toll on me. But was fun!

I briefly held the neighborhood longest jump on a bicycle from a 3' high ramp!! Frame broke on the bike don't you know...yes we had all the safety gear, Keds, shorts, and a T-shirt....mom supplied the clean undies!!

Don't do as I say...or as I do I guess.

 

[RobJ]

I just looked at the calendar and it IS "Cite a Random Statistic Day"! But apparently only 2.5% of the population even knows that there is a CRS Day.

Can I put this in my Sig?? I think March is CRS month anyway.