Comparison I've got it narrowed down but i still have questions.

[mfsr]

Hello all, I've been silently stalking the forums for the last few months absorbing everything I can. The site is great and I really appreciate all the knowledge you all so willingly share.

I'm finally getting close to pulling the trigger on my first and possibly last tractor. I have 2.25 acres that is level and heavily treed(mostly smaller lodgepole). I will eventually have around 400' of gravel driveway plus 2 big circular drives for the house and shop.(The property is long and skinny). I dont intend to have any wide open mowable areas as I am keeping as many trees as possible. The tractor will be used for digging up smaller stumps, grading my driveway, clearing brush, smoothing the open areas, blowing snow and most importantly, having fun. I intend on getting a FEL, BH, front mount snow blower, box blade and maybe a small tiller.

While it is level, the terrain is rough so ground clearance is a concern. Because of that i have shifted my focus from the bx and 1 family tractors to the B and 2 family. This along with price, size restrictions, dealer proximity, dealer comfort, and brand comfort has led me to 3 tractors. The 2018 JD 2025R, and the 2018 Kubota B2301 and B2601.

I've gathered up the most current specs i can find and have attached them. On paper, the 2025 is closer to a BX than the B01 series. It really isnt much of a comparison.

I've heard pros and cons for both plastic and metal hoods so i am sixes on that. I'm not a big guy so the operator platform on every tractor i have sat in is fine with me. It's my first tractor so i dont have an affinity for the treadle or the twin touch. I dont even have a favorite color. I'm a clean slate.

The 2025R is a little heavier. I know i am going to give up some FEL capacity with the addition of a 54" quick attach bucket and QA coupler. The alternator upgrade for the B01 is a cheap add-on so that is kind of a wash.

First of all, am i looking at all the numbers i need to look at? Is there something i am missing?

Secondly, despite all the red on the 2025R, the one item that bugs me the most is the 'rated engine speed'. 3200rpm seems really high especially when you are only getting 2100rpm out of the mid pto. The one thing i really want this tractor to do well is blow snow and 2500rpm at 2800rpm engine speed seems like it would throw alot better and more comfortably than 2100rpm at 3200rpm engine speed. Am I incorrect?

I'm sure i'll have additional questions as i get closer.

Thanks in advance.

 

[WVH1977]

Have you thought about the 2032r? You get more PTO hp and 2500 rpm rated engine speed.

 

[rngrrymd]

Have you thought about the 2032r? You get more PTO hp and 2500 rpm rated engine speed.

I love John Deere's 2R series and the 2032R would have better specs than the 2025R which is really a tween tractor between the 1 series and the larger motor 2R series. There is a major downfall with the 2R and that is clearance at the drawbar: 9.8" clearance at the front and only 6.5" at the rear drawbar. mfsr, what about pushing up to a B2650? You get a 14.6" ground clearance and your width goes from 49" to 53.7" plus you can have wheel spacers installed which should give you about another 3-1/4" extra width for stability. Plus you get another 264 lbs of weight.

 

[mfsr]

The 2032r has been at the top of my list since I came to the conclusion the the Scuts wouldnt cut it. Unfortunately, the 32 hp comes at a bit of a premium and is a tad out of my price range. The 2301 is my sweet spot and a got a quote on a 2025r that was about the same. The 2601 uses the same FEL, BH, etc as the 2301 so you only a little more for the base tractor. The 2650 is just a little jump in price for the base tractor but uses bigger FEL, BH, etc so it kind of steam rolls from there. Admittedly, my budget is flexible but the boss is likely to shut me down at some point..

I just felt like I was missing something on the 2025r. it really doesn’t stack up and is more of a 1 family tractor on swol. I really like the dealer I worked with and I wanted to make sure I gave him a fair shake in my evaluation. I do like the flip seat on the 2025 BH though.

 

[rngrrymd]

https://www.pefleys.com/inventory/?...ubota-b2650hsd?dlr=1&pcid=3010906&sfc=0&ssc=0 <-- B2650 w/loader $19,100
https://www.pefleys.com/inventory/?...ubota-b2601hsd?dlr=1&pcid=3010906&sfc=0&ssc=0 <-- B2601 w/loader they ain't saying.
https://www.pefleys.com/inventory/?...ubota-b2301hsd?dlr=1&pcid=3010906&sfc=0&ssc=0 <-- B2301 w/loader $17,100

These are prices from the same exact dealer (didn't check to see how good or bad their prices are but they work for this example). Looks like the 01 series takes a BH70 (list price $7149) and the 50 series takes a BH77 (list price $7783) backhoe. I was thinking they took same backhoe but did a double take on Kubota website before posting. The snow blower, box blade and tiller should be the same price for either tractor (you might be able to get bigger snowblower but let's assume you use the same size.)

So....let's guesstimate the B2601 would run $18,100 at this dealer - that would make the upgrade to the B2650 a price jump of $1k for the tractor and just over $500 for the backhoe. If you get the snowblower and the other accessories all up front then you are over $30k for the whole package. If you are financing at 0% for 60 months your increase in payment for the upgrade will be roughly $28 a month, 0% for 84 months will be roughly $16 a month (You have to put 20% cash down to get 0% for 84 months - I accounted for that but your overall payment would be less because of the downpayment). If you pay cash that's extra out of your pocket. If you are financing then not big difference.

 

[dodge man]

I’m not sure what your asking on PTO speed? The listed RPM is what the shaft is turning not what the engine is turning. I assume the manufacturer gears everything to match that PTO speed well.

 

[oosik]

mfsr - - Welcome to TBN and the forum. By the way - update your profile and let us know where you are located.

Suggestion - - take a look at what you plan on doing with your new tractor for the next five years. What percentage of the workload/projects will require the use of a back hoe.

Now look at the cost of the back hoe as compared to the overall cost of the tractor - how to the two percentages match up( workload % vs back hoe cost %).

Back hoe attachments are very expensive and often represent only a very small percentage of the overall workload but a high percentage of the total cost of the new tractor package.

Many feel a back hoe is very essential when in actuality it is a very small percentage of the expected use. Very adequate back hoe equipment can be rented for those specific situations and can save considerable money and a lot of wear and tear on your equipment.

Just a though for you to consider.

 

[RandyinTN]

Very adequate back hoe equipment can be rented for those specific situations and can save considerable money and a lot of wear and tear on your equipment.
Just a though for you to consider.

How much would it cost to have a backhoe delivered to ones house and include 3 days of rental time, then be picked up by the company that you rent it from?

 

[oosik]

That is EXACTLY the situation/costs that mfsr should be considering, Randy. I not saying - "don't buy a backhoe attachment". What I want mfsr to understand is if he only has a couple short projects for a backhoe over a longer period of time - - it could be a lot more economical to rent equipment. The backhoe makes a pretty expensive ballast attachment on any tractor.

If you are in a remote location - such as I am - everything from lumber, concrete, rental equipment, contracted services - is expensive.

Thank you for emphasizing my point.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
Now look at the cost of the back hoe as compared to the overall cost of the tractor - how to the two percentages match up( workload % vs back hoe cost %).

Back hoe attachments are very expensive and often represent only a very small percentage of the overall workload but a high percentage of the total cost of the new tractor package.

Many feel a back hoe is very essential when in actuality it is a very small percentage of the expected use. Very adequate back hoe equipment can be rented for those specific situations and can save considerable money and a lot of wear and tear on your equipment.

Just a though for you to consider.

This is true on the backhoe, especially a small one. However one of the main things us certified old farts need to consider is our backs. I've had 3 back surgeries. I plan to use my backhoe for many little things that I normally would just have "muscled through" when I was younger.

How much would it cost to have a backhoe delivered to ones house and include 3 days of rental time, then be picked up by the company that you rent it from?

For me a 9.5K mini-ex would cost about $330 for 1 day ($940/week) and a 4 hour delivery/return (don't know cost on that). And then there is the consideration - will it be available WHEN I want it. What if the weather is bad?

But back to the OP -
Have you considered the L2501? Right now that seems the sweet spot for SCUT in the Kubota line, basically slightly detuned for EPA limits.

 

[oosik]

Thank you - newbury. I've never had or used or rented a backhoe. The costs you project are most likely pretty realistic out here at my location also. I've had ONE large, for us, project out here where a small back hoe, probably, would have helped.

Thirty five years ago - thank God - we planted over 700 small trees of all types over a two year period. Now, THERE, a small back hoe would have helped. However - being a hard headed Norwegian and basically a real cheap ******* - I dug every single hole with my trusty hand shovel. On top of the initial 700 - we planted 100 more small trees every year for the next five years.

We finally gave up when we realized the pocket gophers were killing the trees a whole lot faster than we could plant or afford or keep watered.

 

[4570Man]

My backhoe got used a lot. It never took on a major excavation project, but did numerous smaller ones. And I got most of the investment back when I sold it. I was definitely in the green buying vs renting. I can only think of about 4 renting worth projects my backhoe did, but it sure got used more than 4 times. How many people need a tractor more than once or twice a year and couldn’t just rent one. No one seems to like that idea. It seems like mostly non backhoe owners saying not to buy them. I don’t think you’ll find very many unsatisfied backhoe owners.

 

[RandyinTN]

That is EXACTLY the situation/costs that mfsr should be considering, Randy. I not saying - "don't buy a backhoe attachment". What I want mfsr to understand is if he only has a couple short projects for a backhoe over a longer period of time - - it could be a lot more economical to rent equipment. The backhoe makes a pretty expensive ballast attachment on any tractor.

If you are in a remote location - such as I am - everything from lumber, concrete, rental equipment, contracted services - is expensive.

Thank you for emphasizing my point.

I was asking you what it costs to rent. If you are saying renting is a viable option I would like to know the costs of renting that you are basing your opinion on.

 

[mfsr]

rngrrymd, I get what you are saying. I know its not a big difference. Just that whole death by a thousand cuts. I started by looking at the B2301, a little more here and a little more there and the next thing you know im tooling around in a B3350 with a cab which will absolutely need Heat and AC because i will likely be living in it until the boss cools down.

Dodge man, please correct me if i am wrong. This is why i asked. Take the 2025R. It has a rated engine speed of 3200rpm. At those revolutions you will get 2100rpm at of the mid and 540rpm out of the rear. If you back off the engine speed to say 2500rpm are you still getting 2100 out of the mid and 540 out of the rear or do the PTO speeds drop off proportionately with the engine speed? I'm new to these smaller diesels but 3200rpm seems rapped out for any diesel and would accelerate wear just trying to run your implements at their designed speeds.

oosik, the next 5 years is when i expect to see the bulk of the hoe work. after that i expect it to fall off a bit. Beyond stump removal and just general dirt work, I will have excavation projects to get water, sewer and power back to my cabin site that i may or may not take on with the hoe. We arent off the grid but we are in the mountains. In the past couple years we have had quite a few instances where a hoe would have been a valuable tool but we were able to make it work with shovels and my truck. The rental gig would work but i would need to pick it up on a Friday after work, lug it 2 hours into the hills, rush to get eveything done, lug it back on Sunday and then try and drop it off Monday morning without missing too much work. I'm not fooling myself, its a convienence i could live without, but why?

newbury, the front mount blower is the only requirement that the boss laid down. The lack of a mid PTO ruled out the L series.

Thanks

 

[dodge man]

You are looking at it correctly, yes the Deere will have to rev higher to make PTO speed. The Kubota BX line is the same way though, you are looking at higher RPMS to make PTO speed. I own a BX and it seems high but that's what its desgined for. I usually only rev it to full throttle when mowing, which is a lot of the time.

 

[4570Man]

The pto mid and rear drop off if the engine rpm is less than rated rpm.

 

[rngrrymd]

rngrrymd, I get what you are saying. I know its not a big difference. Just that whole death by a thousand cuts. I started by looking at the B2301, a little more here and a little more there and the next thing you know im tooling around in a B3350 with a cab which will absolutely need Heat and AC because i will likely be living in it until the boss cools down.

At least you'd have a nice comfy "doghouse" to hang out in lol :laughing:

I understand your thought process on the hoe. I justified my purchase because I will save money on excavation costs of our home build and I have a lot of work planned for it over the next few years as well as ongoing property maintenance (and I got the missus to approve). I know it's not the same at a mini-ex or just plain an ex and everybody here suggests renting equipment all the time. Most of the members here like to help spend your money on tractors but most of them hate to see it get wasted on an accessory if you don't truly need it and then have you regret it thus all the well meaning suggestions to rent a mini-ex instead. I think you fall into line with myself and some other posters who have time constraints for renting/using equipment (never know when we can get some hours locked in to use it) and we have enough projects over time to make it worth it purchasing the backhoe and having it available on our terms.

The only reason I was pushing you towards the B2650 is for the better ground clearance and better loader capability and backhoe specs but it still keeps you in that basic HP range. Honestly, any of the tractors you listed originally will probably work fine for you as long as you don't intend to get some big rotary cutter or attachment that your PTO HP can't handle.

In the end it's your money being spent so you have to make the choice but I know I would go for the B2650. I think the 2032R and 2038R are too much of a money bounce to justify when the B's would work fine and because you don't get the ground clearance you are looking for. If you do finance Kubota make sure you add in the cost of the KTAC insurance into your payment figures. It is the best insurance out there for tractors.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-buying-pricing/400494-insurance-pay-offs.html <-- When Brian from KTAC steps in and you realize being on TBN has it's advantages - you have the KTAC Director of Operations looking out for you.

 

[Tractorable]

I just got CFO approval for a new tractor. Getting over that hurdle is tougher than coming up with the funds, LOL. Now I can start tractor scheming for real!

 

[rngrrymd]

I just got CFO approval for a new tractor. Getting over that hurdle is tougher than coming up with the funds, LOL. Now I can start tractor scheming for real!

Tractorable, let's go shopping!!

 

[mfsr]

At least you'd have a nice comfy "doghouse" to hang out in lol :laughing:

I understand your thought process on the hoe. I justified my purchase because I will save money on excavation costs of our home build and I have a lot of work planned for it over the next few years as well as ongoing property maintenance (and I got the missus to approve). I know it's not the same at a mini-ex or just plain an ex and everybody here suggests renting equipment all the time. Most of the members here like to help spend your money on tractors but most of them hate to see it get wasted on an accessory if you don't truly need it and then have you regret it thus all the well meaning suggestions to rent a mini-ex instead. I think you fall into line with myself and some other posters who have time constraints for renting/using equipment (never know when we can get some hours locked in to use it) and we have enough projects over time to make it worth it purchasing the backhoe and having it available on our terms.

The only reason I was pushing you towards the B2650 is for the better ground clearance and better loader capability and backhoe specs but it still keeps you in that basic HP range. Honestly, any of the tractors you listed originally will probably work fine for you as long as you don't intend to get some big rotary cutter or attachment that your PTO HP can't handle.

In the end it's your money being spent so you have to make the choice but I know I would go for the B2650. I think the 2032R and 2038R are too much of a money bounce to justify when the B's would work fine and because you don't get the ground clearance you are looking for. If you do finance Kubota make sure you add in the cost of the KTAC insurance into your payment figures. It is the best insurance out there for tractors.

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-buying-pricing/400494-insurance-pay-offs.html <-- When Brian from KTAC steps in and you realize being on TBN has it's advantages - you have the KTAC Director of Operations looking out for you.

I spent the day working at one of our companies grain mills and after we wrapped up i got some seat time in a 2650 at the local dealer. I am so screwed.