JD 3720 Cold Start Issues

[jloven]

jl
You don't have your location in your bio (that would help !! ) so we don't relate well to what country or area you are dealing with, as far as temp, etc.

A 75 deg shop is way too hot for me, even if sitting around for long periods of time. Let alone, having to move around... I'd be shedding a lot of clothes.

Western North Carolina and just guessing on the inside temp. Just trying to check to see if the instrument panel has a cold solder joint or maybe a loose connection. Thought it was interesting that it will start in warmer temps and not in 35 degree weather.

 

[jloven]

Another update: Tried to start the tractor which had been left outside in 30 degree weather all night and same problem, would not start. We moved the tractor in the shop to a warm environment at 8 am and it started up around 10 am. We then removed the instrument panel and placed it in the freezer for about 4 hours. Reconnected the instrument panel and now it won't start again. Obviously something is loosing connection as the panel gets cold. I am letting it sit for an hour and then going to try it again.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Another update: Tried to start the tractor which had been left outside in 30 degree weather all night and same problem, would not start. We moved the tractor in the shop to a warm environment at 8 am and it started up around 10 am. We then removed the instrument panel and placed it in the freezer for about 4 hours. Reconnected the instrument panel and now it won't start again. Obviously something is loosing connection as the panel gets cold. I am letting it sit for an hour and then going to try it again.

Good troubleshooting work. Do you use di-electric grease on the connections?

 

[jloven]

So after freezing the instrument panel for a couple hours and reinstalling it would not start. We let it sit for about an hour in the heated shop and it started right up. Did the same procedure a second time and after freezing, it would not start. Let it sit for an hour and warm up and it started right up. Did not try the di-electric grease, but do not suspect a connection. At this point it is something inside SEALED instrument panel that is contracting with the cold temperature and loosing electrical contact. Who knows what that might be, cold solder joint, any of the electronic chips on the computer boards,.... since its sealed its impossible to get into the panel to troubleshoot. Would probably be next to impossible to find the problem even if you could get into the panel.
So I am left with three basic options...1) Only use the tractor in warm weather (not practical), 2) Purchase a new instrument panel ($700 installed), 3) Buy a used one ($250). Supposedly any new instrument panel has to be dealer programmed (per the service dept. at my local dealership)??? What is there to program? I was told by the dealer that it was payload information... Not even sure what that means.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I'm thinking they load the current hours on the tractor in it too. Not sure of what else.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I might be tempted to pry into it. I had a lunch seminar on PCB's yesterday. Printed circuit boards. Not my domain, but thermal expansion can crack solder joints. Also, boards are made in layers measured in mils (.001") with .005 being a common thickness for some layers. I have to wonder if moisture has gotten in it and is freezing/expanding a gap??? We have a vacuum oven at work which is great for drying out electric devices/cell phones etc that have gotten wet. I set the temp about 120 F and turn on the vacuum pump. Removes all moisture. In most cases it works in about a few hours but I have left stuff in it overnight.

Be sure to take and post pics for all your fellow mankind if you decide to tear into it. Thanks!

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I would tell you to move South but it is 31F here in Giddings Texas today while it is warmer in Montana right now.

 

[beenthere]

I'd be for documenting your test procedures for the different times you put the instrument panel through its paces, and submit that document to your dealer to forward to the Deere regional rep.
I think you will get Deere support on this once your troubleshooting and conclusions are known (and documented). Hopefully you are getting good support from your Deere dealer in forwarding this up the line.

 

[arlen4720]

I'm thinking they load the current hours on the tractor in it too. Not sure of what else.

Hours, type of tranny, and tire size are the things that come to mind. Also, I think that there are different versions of software that can be put in, but I'm not sure.

 

[jloven]

I ordered a used instrument cluster, installed it, and problem seems to be resolved. As expected I had to take it to the dealer to program. Didn't think it would be any big deal. They told me I had to take the entire tractor to them. Asked them if I could wait while they programmed since it only takes a few minutes. After an hour or so I asked if it was ready. I was told no they could not find the cable. They supposedly had the cable I read the old panel but did not have the one necessary to program the new panel, which is the same as the old. Does that make sense to anyone ? In any event I am still waiting on them and my tractor two days later.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I wonder how you managed to find a used panel? I can't think there are many of these headed to the junkyard.

 

[sunnyside360]

I wonder how you managed to find a used panel? I can't think there are many of these headed to the junkyard.

I was wondering the exact same thing, especially for a model that was introduced only 10 years ago (2005).

 

[jloven]

Rock Valley Tractor is where I found the used cluster. Going to the dealer to finally pick up tomorrow. They called today and indicated they could not program the hours into the other cluster?? I asked if they could have programmed the hours into the new cluster and they said No, it would start at 0. Does that make sense? What else is there to program? I think I am getting ripped.

 

[LoudonNH]

Sounds like a cluster...

 

[arlen4720]

Does that make sense? What else is there to program? I think I am getting ripped.

Tire size, and tranny type comes to mind, I don't know what else...maybe software version. Ask the dealer what you are getting for your money.

Sounds like a cluster...

Now that's funny

 

[jloven]

According to dealer the eHydro option along with tire size and some basic settings. Verified with another dealer. Only charged for 1 hour of service work. Bummer that the hours cannot be programmed into dash. I can understand the basic reason why but seems like a new dash could have that option.

 

[hugho]

On all failure to start issues, the very first thing you do is check the battery cable connections, positive and neg.Clean the battery side and the chassis ground with a wire brush. If there is corrosion anywhere, get rid of it and down to bare copper. Replace the terminal if necessary. Check the connection at both ends. Usually the problem is at the battery. Check and clean the grounds really well and I mean really well. Check the solenoid sense wire when you have someone turn the key. It should of course light up. Check the voltage and amperage at the starter terminal. You can also jump the starter . If the solenoid clicks but doesn't spin the armature then pull out the starter after disconnecting the negative terminal of course.Take the starter to the bench and hook up jumper cables to the hot terminal and run a red wire to the solenoid screw and it should spin merrily away. If not buy a new starter. Of course it can be the relay which is easily tested as well and relays are so cheap that I usually just throw one in instead of testing it. It can also be in the ignition switch but you would have found that out when you put a test light on the starter solenoid screw. Most starter solenoids have two heavy copper contacts that are energized when the solenoid closes. They may be pitted and corroded and are easily removed and cleaned. In my experience I go for the simple causes and bad cabling is way common.

 

[jloven]

It was definitely the instrument panel causing the start issue.

 

[sunnyside360]

It was definitely the instrument panel causing the start issue.

Great. IMHO, you did a superb job and should be commended in isolating part at fault. The failure definitely was not in "run of the mill" category like most.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Great. IMHO, you did a superb job and should be commended in isolating part at fault. The failure definitely was not in "run of the mill" category like most.

True. I'd have never thought of putting the panel in the freeze or warming it to troubleshoot. I commend you jloven.