JD 4200 HST won't run HI gear range

[DonG]

I just purchased a 4200 HST 4x4 with 400 hrs and it will not pull itself in HI range on level ground.
It has plenty of power in low A range, and the bucket works well, but it will not even run in HI gear two wheel drive.
I thought the engine was just cold when I first checked it out and it wouldn't run in HI, but after working with it up to temp it still will not pull itself in HI gear. The engine starts and runs great, just bogs down in HI gear.
I need to pull a hay-ride trailer with this tractor and it won't even pull itself in HI range.

 

[dex3361]

Check the hydro fluid first and see if the level is correct. I have seen the brakes on/stuck and it will pull in low and med but not in high its worth a look. My Kubota will over power the brakes in Low and Med range but it makes more whiney noises but it will struggle to pull away with the brakes locked in high.. If that is not the problem I would check/change the hydraulic filters and see if that makes a difference. You bought it used so I wonder if it has been serviced? HSTs are usually trouble free and the problems are usually fluid flow issues.

 

[kennyd]

Welcome to TBN

Check the brakes...the 4x00 series has a habit of breaking the little brake return springs at each wheel hub, and the shaft that goes through the hub often sticks causing the brakes to drag.

Also...when was the fluid/filter last changed and the suction screen cleaned? Do you even know what fluid is in it? Star with the basics...

One other thing-C range is a "road gear", not intended to pull heavy loads with...kind of like a "overdrive"

 

[RoyJackson]

The 4200 tractor was criticized for lacking power (considering the size and weight of the machine). IIRC, it has about 28 Engine HP and 23 or 24 PTO HP. Not much for a 3000 lb machine..and hydro makes it worse.
Your complaint about lack of pulling in high range was the same complaints I read on TBN in 2001.
Sounds like the nature of the beast.

As KennyD wrote...high range is "road" gear, so don't expect much pulling power.

BTW, as a comparison only, my 790 has 27 engine HP and 24 at the PTO. It weighs about 2700 lbs with the loader installed. It pulls strong in 4th gear High (or 8th gear, if you will). But that's just transporting on the road with a 600 lb cutter on the 3PH, so no actual working load on the tractor.

 

[DonG]

Yes it feels like brakes dragging. That was my first thought. I just have to figure out the linkages, and try some adjustments.
The hyd fluid level is good. That was checked before I loaded it, and again after I got home. Plenty of power on the front loader, and no loud whine.
I will closely look into the brakes first thing tomorrow.
THANKS EVERYONE!
This is a great forum.

 

[kennyd]

Don,

Register (for free) at www.jdparts.com It has all the parts listings...same as the system the dealers have


Look at the breakdown below, #18 is the springs I mentioned, there is one on each side. Once you find those, you will see the shaft that goes through the hub...It gets seized over time-especially since the brakes on these machines aren't used much. PB Blaster and or Fluid Film are great options to get them moving freely.

 

[Egon]

My new used JD 4200 is also quite sluggish in third gear on anything but level ground.

Used HST fluid makes for very good oiling.

 

[DonG]

It was the brakes. Both wheels brakes were hung up. Springs were there, but just not strong enough. Once I rotated the brake shaft in the rear diff and freed it up they started working, almost. One side needed a booster spring added to return the brake to neutral after letting off the brake pedal.
Mostly just not used enough, oiled and cleaned properly.
The machine now runs strong in high gear and mid gear.

 

[beenthere]

That news was good to hear.

The power of TBN.

I''ve a 4300, and am glad to know I need to keep those springs in mind.

I was wondering about the transmission filter and the screen. Those early tractors (mine was '99 production) had an inordinate amount of debris found in the hyd. oil screen, to the point it was recommended to clean it at first hyd. oil change around 50 hours. I did, and found the screen with a heavy layer of filings. Subsequent to this, there were some major cleaning steps added at the factory to get milling debris problems reduced.
At 400 hours, a hyd. fluid change might be a good idea to consider (if it hasn't been done). About 7-8 gallons of fluid there.

 

[mjncad]

Thanks for the tip on those springs. Another to do list item I need to add.

 

[kennyd]

It was the brakes. Both wheels brakes were hung up. Springs were there, but just not strong enough. Once I rotated the brake shaft in the rear diff and freed it up they started working, almost. One side needed a booster spring added to return the brake to neutral after letting off the brake pedal.
Mostly just not used enough, oiled and cleaned properly.
The machine now runs strong in high gear and mid gear.

Can you please tell my wife that I am right about some things?

Keep applying a penatrant to those shafts, and they will get even better. Fluid Film works great because it does not dry up like others...

 

[mfreund]

Can you please tell my wife that I am right about some things?

Keep applying a penatrant to those shafts, and they will get even better. Fluid Film works great because it does not dry up like others...

You are on your own, no one here can help you there!!!

 

[dfkrug]

It was the brakes. Both wheels brakes were hung up. Springs were there, but just not strong enough. Once I rotated the brake shaft in the rear diff and freed it up they started working, almost. One side needed a booster spring added to return the brake to neutral after letting off the brake pedal.
Mostly just not used enough, oiled and cleaned properly.
The machine now runs strong in high gear and mid gear.

The pivots on the bell housing for the brake control rods are hard to
grease and eventually get very resistive. You may want to give them
some attention.

Glad you got things moving.

 

[sunnyside360]

Just a thought but I've had the exact same problem on other tractors and learned the main cause was running a 3PH rotary spreader to spread fertilizer. Fertilizer is very caustic and the rotary spreader (mine at least) can throw some fertilizer and dust (albeit small amounts) toward the tractor and the pellets/dust gets lodged on the axle, under the seat, rod pivot points, and etc. causing excessive rust which result in problems exactly like you are having. I now use a blanket barrier attached to the ROPS to shield the tractor when spreading fertilizer and then pressure wash the tractor and spreader when done.
You may not have a rotary spreader but the previous owner may have had one. Again, just a thought.

 

[dfkrug]

Fertilizer is very caustic and the rotary spreader (mine at least) can throw some fertilizer and dust (albeit small amounts) toward the tractor and the pellets/dust gets lodged on the axle, under the seat, rod pivot points, and etc. causing excessive rust which result in problems exactly like you are having.

Yes, I can certainly see that. In a similar vein, the service manager of
the Kubota dealer in town (just closed after decades) saw that quite a
number of newer Kubotas had rust problems. He traced it to many of the
owners using their tractors for cleaning out horse barns. According to him,
the corrosive nature of urine was the cause.

 

[jdjunk]

I am having a similar issue with my 4200 HST. It just started today. I was in HI gear traveling down the road when my machine just stopped, like the brakes were applied but I did not touch a thing. Now I cannot get it to move in HI or MID range only low. Check the brakes, the linkages all are free. I use the turning brakes often plowing snow and we have a lot of it here in PA. What seems to be different is the range selector, I cannot locate the neutral position. And the machine will move in low when the selector is in between MID and HI positions. Any one have any ideas? Also I do not know if this is relative but my rear diff lock does not seem to be engaging. I will push it down with my heal but the rear wheels do not lock together.

 

[mjncad]

I am having a similar issue with my 4200 HST. It just started today. I was in HI gear traveling down the road when my machine just stopped, like the brakes were applied but I did not touch a thing. Now I cannot get it to move in HI or MID range only low. Check the brakes, the linkages all are free. I use the turning brakes often plowing snow and we have a lot of it here in PA. What seems to be different is the range selector, I cannot locate the neutral position. And the machine will move in low when the selector is in between MID and HI positions. Any one have any ideas? Also I do not know if this is relative but my rear diff lock does not seem to be engaging. I will push it down with my heal but the rear wheels do not lock together.

Welcome to the forum. My 4200 has always been fussy about finding the 'B' range, and the same for the differential lock. I think it's a design issue.

However, with all the snow you've been getting, I wonder if you're having ice and snow build-up interfering with the numerous linkages on the tractor. I had a '55 Chevy with a PowerGlide transmission that was prone to linkage freeze-up from snow and ice.

How many hours on your 4200?

 

[dfkrug]

Also I do not know if this is relative but my rear diff lock does not seem to be engaging. I will push it down with my heal but the rear wheels do not lock together.

The choice of metals used by JD in the diff lock was poor. You need to
hold the foot lever down continuously to be assured of engagement while
the tractor is moving.

 

[jdjunk]

Thank you mjncad and dfkrug for your replies. Also thanks mjncad for putting out the welcome mat. I stopped out at my local JD dealer to ask the these same questions and to my surprise they actually helped me and just did not tell me to bring it in for them to take a look at. Well JD thinks something have broke in the range shift transmission but not sure what. I need to split my machine in half to find out what it could be. And as you pointed out, dfkrug, JD did use some questionable parts, also pointed out by JD. Well it looks like this project will have to wait until the snow finally ends for the season or if the range transmission goes completely. The diff lock is also located in the same housing so I will get a chance to look at it as well. I will keep you all posted but it might be awhile. If any one still has any new ideas please don't hold back it might save me a lot of work. Thanks

 

[mjncad]

You're welcome JDjunk.

The diff lock pedal could be a bit bigger; but I notice when it does engage, it goes to the floor all the way. As Dave said, you have to hold it down to keep it engaged. Sometimes I've had to pull it back up like a Toyota gas pedal. Anyway, it acts like there are synchronizers for the diff lock that need to line up before it engages.

Another thought. Are you at a complete stop when trying to shift ranges? If not, that could be another problem.

I suggest you get the shop manual on CD for your 4200 at John Deere Technical Information Bookstore - Home Page

I bought one, and it's a valuable resource, and would be helpful for you to take a look at what is involved before handing over your 4200 to the dealer to split. I don't know what that will cost; but I'm sure it's a $$$$+ repair.