JD 4600 or NHTC40D

[BadgerPhil]

Great forum, very helpful! I just jumped on a JD 4600 and then NHTC40D today. JD had shuttle, which worked very smoothly. Bucket, loader comes off like a breeze. Runs very smoothly. Joystick and shuttle placement did not impress me as a problem. ROPS took horsing to get up and down and place the pins. NH (HST with Dual Power) started well (at 42 deg F), ran smoothly but Dual P would sometimes not stay engaged when the range was changed. Loader (17 LA) way out front reminded me of my old 860 Ford and Freeman-- that's got to be a lot of stress on axle. Loader also seemed to sway more with driving over uneven area. Loader mount was very sturdy, but pins were somewhat difficulat to take out and REPLACE. I did not take the bucket off, YET. Both were awfully sharp units, but my initial impression is that the NH (admittedly, different tranny) is a lot busier, which makes me wonder about future durability. I'm not sure I need super steer; I do have some steep land and woods, and wonder if the longer wheelbase might not be more stable.In sum, if the NH is cheaper, I'd have to think real hard. I'm not sure that I can get the prices in N Wis that I've seen mentioned.

 

[Thomas]

By the sounds you been doing your home work towards your new investment..but you forgot to mention Kubota,not unless you plan on visiting a dealer today. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Well thats kinda like what my father told me...all those extra's are nice but how much are you going to use them and is it worth the cost./w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

Welcome to TBN and enjoy your quest.

Thomas..NH /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

Phil,
I can't say much about the NH but I sure can say alot about the 4600. I have used that tractor like a fullsize one and it hasn't let me down yet. It's performed way beyond it's specs and effortlessly. I did look at the NH when I was buying but didn't like the looks and when you compared apples to apples it looked to me like the JD had more capacity overall than the NH. But I think either one would be good.

 

[BadgerPhil]

That's my first impression, but I have been hoping to have a real alternative to the JD to generate some genuine competition. Loaders: I t looks like the NH LA would lift things (like small implement, etc) farther away from the grill, to place in trailer, etc. So the tucked-in JD 460 could have ONE disadvantage.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Phil, I too looked at the John Deere 4600 and the Kubota 4610 and both at the same dealer in the same yard. The dealer gave me a great info sheet with a side by side comparison between the 2 tractors. Most of the specs were the same or very close with the Kubota edging out in a few of the areas that are more important to me like loader lift. The standout feature of the Kubota over John Deere (and NH for that matter) is its HST. While I also like Kubotas diesel engines better, it is the HST that makes Kubota standout over any other manufactuer. The dealer felt the same way. Rat...

 

[cowboydoc]

Rat,
You can get HST in the JD as well. Also the 4610 is a bigger tractor than the 4600 so it's going to have more power. The 4610 is like comparing to the 4700. That's not a fair comparison. If you look at this then the 4700 wins. Also just looking at the 4600 you can't compare the loader lifts as they measure at different areas. The JD is longer, wider, and heavier, and pump speeds are the same or greater. Now I'm not saying anything against Kubota. I wouldn't mind having one or not but the specs are not any better for a kubota in any category for the like tractor. As far as HST JD has had that in their tractors and cats for over a decade. Kubota has just come out with it on theirs. Again Kubota is a great tractor but it's very difficult to compare one tractor against another unless it's apples to apples.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Richard, I read the comparission sheet and it included the 4700 as well. It mentioned that the 4600 and 4610 were more closely related then the 4700 and the 4610. Very few things, including the loaders on the 3 machines differed by much. All comparisons were not based on brochure specs but rather comparable specs. ie. at pivot point or at middle of bucket. The comparrison is between HST only, not geared tractors as it is the only equitable way to do it. Funny thing is, the 4700 did not win in all categories. I will try to dig it up and give you the low down as to where ther JD was superior and where the Kubota was better. In the end, nothing in the comparissons was so persuasive as to automatically make one choose one tractor over the other. My preference between the 3 tractors is for the ultra smooth HST of the Kubota. Rat...

 

[cowboydoc]

Rat,
I went strictly off of the brochures too. If you look at the 4610 brochure and the JD brochure you will see that the 4600 is bigger in all categories except for hp. Pump capacity is larger for the 4600 and 4700, height, width, length, and weight are all higher for the 4600 and 4700. Fuel tank is 3 gallons larger, 3 point lift capacity at 24" behind is more, and according to the brochures in front of me right now the LA852 for the L4610 is rated at 3055 for breakout force, max lift capacity at full height is rated at 1875 lbs., the jd brochure says max lift capacity of 1705 lbs, kubota wins here, and 3863 breakout capacity, jd wins here. Now the differences are not large at all, within 10-15% in all categories, but from my brochures this is the only category that the kubota beats the jd. But again it's not anything to brag about on either side. Both superior tractors to most anything out there and overall there it's really price and what you like the most that really matters with these two tractors as they are so evenly matched. Really the only difference between the 4600 and 4700 is hp., everything else is the same specs.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Thanks Richard, I will see if I kept this comparision chart that I believe Kubota made but found it suprising how they pointed out where the JD had strong points over their product. I know that breakout force can be a little misleading since you really need to evaluate it with the measured roll back and dump angles since some extra leverage is not uncommon with lesser angles. If I dig it up, I'll attempt to let you know, some folks just might find it interesting to see the categories they chose to use and where the specs may differ from the brochure. Rat...

 

[cowboydoc]

Rat,
I'm not familiar with the comparison charts so I may be missing something here. I just went off of the brochures specs that I had here. I wonder why the comparison would differ from the specs in the brochures though?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Richard/Rat,

The 1705 lb. lift capacity(on the JD 4700/460 loader) is measured at the front-edge of the bucket.
The capacity measured at the pivot-pin is 2325 lbs.

Do you know how the Kubota and NH specs. are measured?

Larry

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re. JD460 loader max. cap. -- Here is a link to a previous post with a little more info:


http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin...jdown&Number=28277&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5

Larry

 

[MJB]

I was looking through my manual which covers the 430 and 460 loaders for Deere. I don't have the table right in front of me now but I believe that the breakout force specified is defined as the boom lift force at ground level, so this should not involve the bucket roll at all. JD gives boom lift specs at ground level (breakout force), at 1.5 meters height, and at full lift height. They also specify the bucket rollback and dump forces in a seperate section. Hope this helps.

 

[JATO_RaT]

I believe breakout force is the force developed by bucket curl be it a loader bucket or a backhoe. It is the reason it is so much higher then the lifting ability of the loader or hoe itself. The reason for it is mechanical advantage. Look at the roll cylinder and most of the time they are the same size or smaller then the lift cylinders in diameter. Look at the attachment points and the leverage comparison, the roll will have greater leverage. This breakout force is something I rely on almost everyday, Rat....

 

[cowboydoc]

Gets confusing. Seems like it is just like any research, you can manipulate the statistics to say whatever you want. Unless you have multiple phd's in that field then it's impossible to tell who's really right.

 

[MJB]

Like I said before I don't have the manual with me right now but I do recall that there was also a graph which showed the lift capacity of the boom versus lift height. The lift capacity is greatest at ground level and drops off as the height increases. This make sense if you look at the angle that the lift cylinders attach to the boom. As the loader is raised the angle between the boom and cylinder decreases and thus the cylinder has less leverage on the boom. The specs that I saw showed much higher lift capacities at ground level and at 1.5 meters high than at full height. I will take another look at the manual when I get home and maybe scan in the page in question and post the results.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

MJB,

The figures quoted in my 3/21 - 9:46pm post in this thread (and the one before it) are taken from the tables you are referring to.

(The "link" is a "cut and paste" e-address.)

Larry /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[MJB]

Here is the promised page from the operators manual. You will note that the bucket rollback force at ground level is actually larger than the "breakout" force that is specified. Enjoy./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[JeffInDaUP]

Phil, I am tring to make the same decision as yours at the end of this week. When comparing "apples to apples" I am looking at price as well-the final prices for the JD4600 and L4610 from my local dealers are the same(within $25). True, the 4610 compares more equally with the 4700, but the 4700 is higher priced than the 4610-with my experience. The lift capacity is roughly 150#s more on the 4610-at pivot pin and the breakout force 500mm forward is slightly under 3000#s for JD4600, and Slightly over 3000#s for the 4610-Specs are basically the same for both models for FEL, but will almost 5 more hp on 4610 make a big difference? I am visiting both dealers 1 more time in the next two days and will decide and buy this weekend. Both dealers are great and have gone out of their way to help-it is a very tough decision.

Jeff...MI.

 

[BadgerPhil]

Jeff:
But it's fun, isn't it!! Pardon my ignorance, but the L4610 is Kubota? Just for fun, the following has been recently for sale in my area: Kubota 4200, 1997, 6 actual hours, R4, joystick loader, air-cond cab, power glide shuttle sync, paid 28,800, trade-in value about $16,000. What do you think?