Oil & Fuel jd 5310 temp gauge

[picanoor]

I have a 5310 JD, just resently the temperature gauge and the tank gauge are showing hot in the red and completely full , over the full mark, as soon as i turn the ignition swith and start the engine, they both are off, they do do come back to cold end empthy.
do i have a sensor problem or a gauge problem, or is there a current going to the instrument panel which can cause this? bad ground?
please your help on this.

thanks
picanoor

 

[JD5210]

So that I am clear the gauges (temperature and fuel) are doing this with the key NOT in the tractor? Or when the key is in the run position and not started? When the tractor is running do the gauges work correctly?

Is everything else working ok in the cluster (instrument lights, tach, high beam indicator and warning lights)?

 

[picanoor]

sorry let me be more clear:
When the key is out, the gauges do not come back to the "pin", they stay about 3/4" away from going all the way to the left.
As soon as the key is in and turned (not starting) the gauges go to the right, past full and in the red on the temperature.
when i start they stay there.
other thing i did not notice before:
my fuse went out of the head lights, as soon as i put a new one in and turn on the lights it blows.

Looks like a electric short on the whole dasH, what do you think?

picanoor

 

[JD5210]

When the key is not in the tractor you are having power to the cluster. You may want to consider disconnecting the battery, so as not to wear it out. All the following assumes you do NOT have a cab tractor. If it is a cab tractor the electric system is a little different. I suggest taking the bolt out that connects the negative cable to the frame. You may get a little spark, when doing this. Easier to get to then at the battery. You will want to clean that, if needed. On the other side of battery (positive side) there is bolt that connects the front wiring harness to the frame. I suggest you clean that if needed.

FYI. If the wires for the fuel or temperature gauges are disconnected and there is power to the cluster fuel gauge will show full and the temperature will show hot. I do feel it is a short as temperature gauge is in the front wiring harness and the fuel is in the rear.

Sorry for more questions, which 20 amp head light fuse high or low? On the bottom row of fuses is it the 6th or 7th holder? I am going to guess it is the 6th one, which is the high beam. I am assuming this did not start to happen after driving the tractor through something that could have pulled a wire loose underneath the tractor.

With the battery connected. Remove, then replace all the fuses one by one see, to see if the gauges go all the way to the left. In case your manual is not near at hand here is a URL to the manual. This manual shows the first fuses as a 20 amp, but it will be a red 10 amp.
//manuals.deere.com/omview/OMRE71736_19/?tM=

Are you open to removing the cowl that is around the cluster? I would like to disconnect the turn signal switch, light switch and diode. If you are open to doing this and do not know how. I can walk you through this. In fixing the tach on my tractor, I have done this enough that I think I could do it in my sleep.

I have included some other URL痴 you may find of interest.
//www.deere.com/en_US/ag/servicesupport/tips/augusta/5000/instrpanelfog.html
//www.deere.com/en_US/ag/servicesupport/tips/augusta/5000/leakfuelcap.html
//www.deere.com/en_US/ag/servicesupport/tips/augusta/5000/backlash.html
//www.deere.com/en_US/ag/servicesupport/tips/augusta/5000/modelyear.html

 

[picanoor]

ok thanks for the reaction.

it stopped raining so now i did have a change to work on it a little;
yes it is not a cab tractor.
when the battery is disconnected the gauges stay where they are about 3/4" from the left end stop for fuel and 3/4" in the green.
so it does not make a difference if there is power on the tractor or not.

fuse 1 and 6: either one removed when the contact is on and the gauges go to the left as described above.

strange thing my lights are working now no fuse burning anymore.

not much daylight left to open everything up and do as you suggested in your last paragraph, will do next week when i am back from work.

 

[JD5210]

I am little slow, but I think I am understanding the problems. There is two problems, why do the gauges not move all the way to the left, when there is no power. The second why do the gauges move all the way to the right when there is power. Second problem first, the tech manual indicates, both gauges will move to the right when there is less resistance. While possible I do not think both senders went out at the same time. The temp sender is in the front and the fuel is in the back wiring harness. Take off the panel that the key switch is in. Take out the 2 (top&bottom) philips on the instrument cluster on the left side. 3 - 10 mm screws hold the left cowl in (2 under the hood and 1 under the instrument cluster). On the back of the instrument cluster there are 2 plugs larger on the left holds the wiring for the gauges. You can insure that the connector is secure and test. If problem remains. With the negative battery terminal disconnected. Unplug the larger plug. Wire number 353 (orange) is from the fuel sender and 359 (white) temp gauge. Using an ohm meter check the wires. The temp sender is in the back of the engine also a white wire. Also test the black ground wire.

The following are test from the tech manual for temp gauge tractor off and key in run position
Remove wire from the top of sensor. The gauge should go to cold. If not the problem is in the instrument cluster

The following are test from the tech manual for fuel gauge tractor off and key in run position
Remove wire from the sensor at the fuel tank (orange/353). The gauge should go to empty. If not the problem is in the instrument cluster
Connect fuel tank (orange/353) to ground wire at the fuel tank (black/010B). The gauge should go to full. If not check for corroded connections or break in orange wire between sender and instrument panel connector. Check for continuity to ground through black wire Nos. 010B and /010K to cap screw on rockshaft cover. The problem is in the instrument cluster.

Lets hope it is not the cluster (it is pricey), but if it is you might want to take a picture of the hours, should you elect to sell the tractor at some point. To take out the cluster you will need to remove the other side of the cowl. Remove the knob on the throttle and push it all the way forward. I just took the handles of the light and turn signal switches off and took off the nuts. Seemed easier then try to unplug them. Tighten the Philip screws that hold cluster in evenly so as to avoid breaking the glass. The little rubber boot is harder to put on then you think.

I included a picture of the wiring diagram. In fixing my tach (bad solder joint). I opened up the cluster and put back together the cluster about 10 times. It can be done. If you do that let me know I can share a couple items with you.

 

[picanoor]

ok JD 5210.
i did the testing:

-checked and cleaned the connectors to the cluster, no result
- both the fuel and temp are checking out as described but the gauge needle will never go all the way back to the left on either one.
fuel: putting orange direct on black tank full,
Temp: when connected temp direct on ground same, red hot.
everything directs to the cluster,
what caught my eye was that my tach is off as well.
it goes to zero when not running idle at 1500, but goes past 3000 when not even at full rpm

tried to take the yellow gas throttle knob off put that one is tight any tricks for this?
Yes if you have advice on opening the cluster i appreciate this as well.
assume best is to take of the green body parts to get instrument panel out?

 

[JD5210]

After disconnecting the negative cable, yes you will need to remove the 3 green body parts. You can unplug the light switch and turn signals. I just removed the knobs and took off the screws. You will need to remove yellow throttle knob, it is just pushed on. I did have to fight with mine the first time. Then push the throttle lever totally forward. Look and see how that rubber boot above the steering wheel is on. At least for me that boot was the toughest piece to put back on. Of course the 2 connectors and play with it to get over the throttle lever.

Then remove the 8 screws and the nuts (8mm) and open up the cluster. The same cluster is used for the 4 cylinder 5410, the little switch inside tells the tachometer if it is a 3 or 4 cylinder engine, be gentle with it if you move it. Taking the 10 nuts off the (fuel/tach/temp gauge) and you can remove the circuit board. I would look for a bad capacitor. If you do not know what a bad cap looks like, you can search the web for examples.

I included a picture of what the back of the circuit board looks like and the pattern for putting the screws back in, to avoid breaking the glass.

On putting back together, make sure the glass is seated down all the way around. Also do not forget to move the throttle back. I think I lost 2 years, when I started it at full throttle.

I have not purchased anything from this site, but you might check this site if the cluster needs replacing. John Deere Parts for Lawn Tractors, Gators, Walk Behind Mowers and all John Deere Equipment, including farm equipment.

 

[JD5210]

Consider this suggestion for getting the throttle knob off. Take a pair of vice grips, close it, than screw it closed, so it fits under the knob, but does not grip the throttle lever. Then tap the grips up and hopefully the knob will pop off. Or cut a slot in a piece of wood and put that under the knob and tap the piece of wood.

If you do take the circuit board off it will be interest to see if the fuel and temperature gauge go back to the pins. The tachometer uses an air core-meter, as I am sure you have seen it goes to zero when the key is in the run position. I have attached a picture of the gauges with the circuit board off.

A little off topic, but you might want to look at this web site.
http://www.visaevolution.com/dati_sito/manuali/officina/motori/john deere/ctm125-3029-ENG.pdf

 

[picanoor]

all right it took a while before i had time, but i took the circuit board out as you suggested.
attached a picture of the the board and the display
as you see, the gauges did not go to zero, also and there is no sign of a capacitor or other connected which is burned out.
not sure about the tach meter, after a while it started to go trough zero. then when i moved it, it stayed at 5 for a while, when i put it back together it ended up on zero.
when it was put back together the fuel gauge was at zero and the temp at end of red bar.

Any suggestions?
can i buy separate gauges to change out?

pete.