JD X500 Series

[BrokerBob]

I will open by acknowledging that I own a BX1800 and so I'm hooked on Kubota. The purpose of my post is to share an observation. This past weekend I stopped by the John Deere dealer in my area and I saw the new X-series. It was a nice looking machine.

I then went on the Deere website and priced out the X595. This is the unit which is most comparable to the BX1800 and BX2200. It comes with a 24 hp Yanmar diesel and 4wd. Adding the rear pto and 3PH with a 54" MMM, the total comes to almost $14,000 list! The list price for the equivalent BX is around $2,000 less.

Certainly Deere provides a broader series of choices and the buyer can add features as needed, however, the whole package doesn't come cheap. Why would someone buy X500 series if they can get the same thing at Kubota for less?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I wouldnt think twice about spending 2k more for a great
American name like John Deere,I live in Iowa and green
runs very deep around here.Other American names at my
house are Harley Davidson and Chevorlet....just my 2cents.
PS I hope you bought Harley stock last September.
Buy American,it needs us

 

[MReeter]

Bob,I also own a BX2200.I also stopped by and checked out the X-Series.You're right when you say it's a very good looking machine,that green and yellow paint is sharp.But,it has a one range Hydro,400 lbs. max. lift on the 3-point,I can't find any specs on the FEL,but I'm sure it won't be up to par with the BX.You can't mow in reverse without engaging a lever on the dash.
One thing about Deere,everything is extra,4WD,rear PTO,3-point,front Hydraulic ports.



Did I say that it sure was pretty? I almost forgot,it does have a port to plug in your cell phone...

 

[MReeter]

DHR,I agree with you 100%,I have been a Union Member for 25 years.We drive Ford and Chevy,and wish I had a Harley,or even some of their stock.I've always try to buy Made in the U.S.A. when ever possable.I have nothing against the Deere company or name.

I live in middle of Ag country just South of you in Missouri,and believe me,Deere is the brand of choice by the majority of the best farmers in our area.

My problem is our one and only Dealer that is close by.I have have tried to buy from them on several occasions (5 mowers or compacts in the past 10 years).

They only talk in terms of list price and list only,it's their way or the hiway.So,I've always taken the hiway,I know I could get a little better price by driving a ways,but I would just as soon spend our money at home.

 

[beenthere]

Hmmmm? And the X series is selling so fast Deere can't keep up. Hmmmm? Guess I'll go figure!

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Its too bad when a company has a product that is in high
demand (JD & Harley) that they put a high retail price on
there products and stick to it.I don't mind paying
retail for a good product as long as it has high resale or
trade value.I just sold a JD2640 that I used for 3 years,
never cost me a dime in break downs and made $3800.00
I couldn't afford not to buy green again.No I don't expect
to make money on the new 4310 I bought,but its a good
feeling that JD depreciates less that any other tractor here in
eastern Iowa

 

[rancar]

BrokerBob...

<font color=green>Why would someone buy X500 series if they can get the same thing at Kubota for less?</font color=green>

I guess, simply because previous JD owners are extremely happy with JD's reliability and top notch quality. Spending the extra $2K is worth it to them. I've received the x500 series promotional literature in the mail and if I was going to replace my JD425 I would buy one of these new JD units. Since 1995, never had a single problem with the 425. I appreciate it's reliabilty and if I could get the same from the x500 machines, it's well worth the extra $2K, at least for me that is.

Bob

 

[cowboydoc]

I think what people are forgetting on the other side is that the kubota dealers don't move off of list price either. Yes the price may be cheaper in the beginning but from my own personal experience the kubota dealers are just as arrogant as the deere dealers.

 

[BrokerBob]

There were many interesting responses to my posting. Not to be construed as a rebuttal, I offer the following comments:
1) My reason for the initial post was just to point out that on this particular product category, it would appear that Kubota offers more bang for the buck.
2) It never occurred to me that there could possibly be an issue of patriotism here. If I'm not mistaken, both machines are manufactured in the U.S.. The engines, however, in all cases are manufactured abroad.
3) I know there is brand loyalty of varying degrees throughout the country and among different individuals. This kind of loyalty is earned over many years by manufacturers and their dealers. I would suggest, however, that loyalty not be a substitute for judgement. The reason why U.S. built automobiles and trucks are so good today is because competition demanded it. Consumers benefit from competition only if they vote with their pocketbooks.
4) My comparison was between "list" prices. Dealers will likely only discount if they need to (we're talking the benefits of competition again). It is obvious to me that whether you are green, orange or blue; there are great dealers out there as well as the other kind.

It seems to me that when Kubota introduced the BX1800 and BX2200 series they were creating a new standard within a new category of tractor. Further, they elected to offer two (2) models both equipped with the same features; the only difference being the horsepower. Deere has taken a somewhat different route giving the consumer a range of powerplants and features to chose from. Further, like autos in the 50's and 60's; you "build" your own tractor by selecting a dizzying range of options. Deere has taken one approach. Kubota another. When all is said and done; if you want all of the features incorporated in the BX series; I don't think Deere can touch it for the price.

 

[kokopelli2]

DRH36
i have to tell you that i went to kubota because my none of my local deere dealers would take my JD as a trade! where my kubota dealer fipped out casue one of his guys was looking for a an old deere to play with.....so my trade was o.

 

[JIMCT]

For what it's worth, when my JD dealer was delivering a new bagging system to me 3 weeks ago, I asked him why a new series like the X500 would be so expensive compared with the BX1800-2200 Kubotas when outfitted with rear PTO, 3PH, etc.
He said that the 500 series is aimed more at the top end of the traditional garden tractor market and that so far John Deere has not competed directly with the BX1800-2200 - but that something is in the works. Within a year there will be a new JD line aimed directly at the BX1800-2200 line. He says it will be worth the wait.

 

[Nuru]

I would think that they would be able to compete directly with Kubota by just lowering the price, without a new model that might be less capable than the X500 series. That would save on the Design and development costs, and the model is already in the field. Might smoke off the people who bought them already, but it would sure make sense to do it and not make a new model.

 

[bigpete]

Price aggression/competition might be a good thing for JD right about now. The BX line has blossumed and it sounds like (listen very carefully....) somebody will make a new noise in the bridge market between the best subcompact and the best/biggest GT. What is your best guess? I think (with uninhibited conjecture) an unknown will break the stalemate. Maybe compacts will begin to articulate and drop their primary shafts and belts for high-volume pumps that move light-weight, clean oil...y'ah think???

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I've been casually shopping for a compact tractor for a couple years now, and as soon as my wife breaks down and lets me drop anywhere form 10 to 25K for a new toy, I'll buy a new tractor. I'm not a farmer, just a guy with some land who likes big toys. I have looked at red, green, gold, blue and several shades of orange, but primarily green and traditional orange. I weigh 325 lbs, and have developed a simple test for a tractor to make my initial cut. All I do is step onto the tractor, and see if it feels solid. The 4200 and larger JDs have scored the best on my simple test with zero flex. I love KB's lower prices per feature and multiple dealers in my area, but they have performed the worst in my testing. Every KB from the BX1800 to the B2910 flexes so much that when I step on them that I fear the fenders will fall-off in a couple of years. They probably won't, but when I saw the fender of a B2910 drop 3+ inches when stepped onto the tractor, it was disturbing. Anyway, I stepped onto an X585 JD today and its flex was minimal, similar to a much larger MF. I don't care much about the green versus orange debate, but when my wife finally cracks, I'll buy the tractor that I feel the best about. Right now, green has the edge, but I'll keep my eyes out for any unbiased posts that may provide insight.

I mentioned MF, the larger ones (32-35hp) performed decently, but there aren't any dealers near my home to warrant serious consideration.

Just wanted to provide a different perspective.

 

[rancar]

Big Dave...

<font color=red> mentioned MF, the larger ones (32-35hp) performed decently, but there aren't any dealers near my home to warrant serious consideration.</font color=red>

I wouldn't so easily discount the MFs from consideration due to distance. I bought my JD4710 from a dealer that was 70 miles away. I'm glad I did. He offered the best price on the tractor package and free delivery as well. It may be prudent to shop around within a 90 minute drive of your place to see what the MF dealers have to offer. They may even throw in free delivery. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif Just a thought to consider.

Regards,
Bob Ancar
Cambridge, NY

 

[Anonymous Poster]

In regards to the price of the new JD X-series, I just took delivery of my X595 (w/ HDAP tires) this past Saturday. The price I paid: $10,875. That is approximately $2000+ off the sticker! And this is for a highly-sought-after model! As far as I am concerned there is only one color, and that color is green! Coincidentally, that is the same color as all of that money that I saved!

 

[BrokerBob]

"New User"
Your post gave just enough information to catch one's attention, but not enough to arrive at any conclusion! Having looked at the X500 series on the JD website and also seeing one of the X400 series up close, it's a nice looking machine. The point of my post, however, was one of relative value. What did you get with your X595? MMM? 3PH? Rear PTO? FEL?

I know that JD makes machines far superior to the Kubota BX. The question is whether the X595 can come even close to the BX feature for feature and $ for $. So far I am not yet convinced.

 

[beenthere]

<font color=blue>I know that JD makes machines far superior to the Kubota BX.<font color=black>

Seems this statement answers any question about the price being higher. I like the JD line, but didn't think it was "far superior" to the Kubota BX. Superior - yes (IMO).

 

[bigpete]

Justufying the extra cost for perceived or actual higher qualitty on anything is the hardest part. The BX is a great design and great value, no doubt about that. My 445 is still flawless for all I have put her through and I have absolutely no desire to compare it to any other tractor. It rumbles under my rump, it's paid for, and I'll be sad to see her go sometime in the next year when I "graduate." If I were shopping for something in the subcompact range, I'd probably have to wait until next fall to hear first-hand reports on the X5XX series, the MAssey Ferguson units, and the smaller Boomers. It seems that the BX is tough, but not bulletproof. To avoid the flames, I'll say obligitorily that the BX is the result of true genius in product positioning for catering to a market Deere has avoided for years. It may not be this year, but the natural laws of business and economics always includes a predictable product lifecycle and a process of natural selection, just like old Darwin said. Maybe the BX just gets better, maybe somebody else steps up. There was another post about BX quality somewhere on the Kubota board that seems to identify a few chronic issues with design and assembly, but that will happen with any tractor. Sometimes it's a numbers game because unit sales are high. Sometimes it's a flaw in engineering that haunts a model. If I were shopping right now, I would look and listen very closely to BX issues about steering and the 3PH design. I'd also watch for something similar to surface with the X series.

My $ 0.03125 adjusted for inflation.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I too have been shopping for a new tractor for some time. Currently, I own a GT275 garden tractor and a 318. My next purchase will most likely be a BX22 (BX2200 with hoe). To me, the primary difference between the Kubota BX series and the Deere X series is the base line from which each was created. It appears that the BX series is a scaled down compact and the X series is a scaled up 400 series. For example - the BX cools the hydro by both a fan and by running fluid through the radiator like all their compacts, as far as I can tell, the X series just uses a fan like a garden tractor. I also find it irritating that one needs to negotiate a 3 pt, rear PTO, etc. for a unit that has a 24 HP diesel and 4WD. Does Deere really think that some one is going to spend that kind of money and not want to use implements and a rear PTO? Sure, as noted above, the BX series had several minor introductory defects such as the geometry of the 3 pt, a leaky overfill tank and improper surface roughness of a steering valve. Any new unit will have issues.What is important to me is how the manufacture addresses them. The rate at which Kubota provided warranty remedies and incorporated the fix back into production is impressive. They immediately recognized the short coming, took ownership of it and fixed it. For a while, I was following the thread on the tire scuffing / dragging issue on the 4200 and up series. The last that I read is that Deere would only provide a fix for units purchased with a mower deck - thats pathetic. Furthermore, Kubota tractors are built on a Kubota frame with a Kubota engine and a Kubota drive train. In contrast, the primary components on a Deere are a collection of various manufacturers; this makes it more difficult to get things changed when a problem is found. By the time Deere and the vendor figure out whos responsibility it is, the customer grows impatient. If it is a spec. problem I am sure that the vendor continues to provide units to Deere until the contracted run is complete and then a change is incorporated. I believe this is why Deere discontinued the 4000 series so soon. It was easier to come up with a whole new tractor series then to renegotiate supplier agreements; plus, you can add all the latest bells and whistles and try to gain market advantage. I have kept a pretty close eye on both the Kubota and Deere forums and it appears to me that Deere's compacts have many more issues.