3-Point Hitch John Deere 5075M hitch problem

[mbarber84]

Hello All,

We recently purchased a brand new Deere 5075M 4wd with Cab. Additionally we bought a Kuhn GMD600GII HD rotary mower to use with this tractor. Our tractor is equipped with what Deere refers to as the "STANDARD DUTY" 3 pt hitch.

Recently I had a major malfunction and I would like to get other`s input on the situation. Here`s what happened:

I set the mower according to the tractor, and attached it to the tractor as explained in both machines' manuals. I proceeded to begin mowing pastures. Part way through my mowing, as I proceeded to make an up-hill turn on a medium grade, I lifted the mower using the hydraulic and also raised the hitch off the ground so that I could make my turn. As the tractor began to face up the hill, I heard a loud "BANG". When I looked behind me, I noticed that the right side telescopic draft link had been completely pulled from its socket. Upon closer inspection, it appears as though the "pawl" that is used to hold the telescoping arm in place under load had somehow worked itself loose and allowed the arm to extend. When this happened, the two retention bolts, which are used to prevent the arm from coming out of the socket, immediately failed (sheared in half) and allowed the arm to come out of the socket. Thus causing the mower to basically fall off the tractor. When the mower fell, it fell to the right side due to a lack of support, and also caused the top center link to bend at the outer threaded section.

Here is what I know:

1. The mower was properly attached to the tractor and adjusted to meet the size and dimensions of the tractor.

2. The mower is significantly UNDER the max rated weight load of the STANDARD duty hitch on the 5075m

3. The standard duty 3 pt hitch uses a "horizontal sliding pawl" in order to retain the telescopic arms under load. (ALL other Deere tractors we own (6 of them) use a "vertical lift type pawl"

4. The pawls were properly engaged and fully locked at the time I was operating the tractor. I know this is certain for 3 reasons.
A) I visibly inspected them for proper lock-up prior to starting
B) The mower tracked properly when egaged with the ground
C) The telescopic arms did not pop out on slopes.

Im looking for input, and also to see if anyone else has had issues with these new style horizontal pawls. In my mind this is a poor design. Under load, there is a chance these pawls could be compressed (the torsion spring that keeps them under tension is light) and thus allow the arms to pull out. Deere does offer a HEAVY DUTY telescopic arm as an option (Standard on 5105M) These arms use the same style vertical lift pawls that other deere tractors use (I.E. 3020, 4230, 4040, 6420 we operate)

I have contacted my dealer to see what they can do for me. The tractor has under 20 hrs on it. So far, all they can tell me is that they can replace the sheared retention bolts, the bent top link and thats it. They will allow me to purchase the Heavy Duty telescopic arms at their cost ($1200), but wont replace them under Warranty without some input from other users with similar problems. I also contacted Deere`s Customer Contact Center to see if they can help resolve the problem. I find it strange that, for years, Deere has used the "Lift" or "Verticle" type pawls, and now, all of a sudden offer these new ones that slide sideways. I really feel this is a serious design flaw.

Let me know what you all think. (sorry for the long-winded explanation but its difficult to describe my situation in less words)

THANKS! - Matt B.

 

[AKfish]

Wow! That would have been a real exciting couple of minutes!! Good thing you weren't mowing up a grade and have everything let loose under power... You might be looking at some major repairs for your $7-8,000 disc mower, too!

Thanks for the detailed explaination, Matt. I've had a moment or two of puzzlement over the horizontal pawl release on the extendable draft links, too.

They're not always consistent in either releasing or re-locking. Not nearly as "secure" as the old vertical release!

I've had to fuss with 'em quite a bit to get them to release and then - jerk or drag - drop the implement on the ground and back up to get them securely locked.

Definitely a significant issue to be aware of... especially if the safety links are not up to the task of holding! Time will tell how Deere addresses the problem.

AKfish

 

[AKfish]

Matt;

Another issue that might/might not come up for you with your 5075M - the hydraulic pump and filter/manifold failure.

I've got a running thread related to that problem here: http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/john-deere-buying-pricing/241327-hydraulic-pump-leakdown-5ms.html

AKfish

 

[Zebrafive]

AK,

How about posting a picture of the lower link when you get your tractor back?

 

[mbarber84]

Ak, Thanks for the input. I will keep my eyes on that.

In terms of the mower, it DID let loose under power. I was lucky enough that, when it let loose, it went directly to ground and didnt slip too far from the tractor. It took me a second or two to realize what went wrong, the PTO ran that few seconds. No damage at all to the mower, but if you`ve never dropped a 3pt rotary mower in the field....well....imagine trying to pick up a slinky from the top (LOL)

It took me close to 4 hrs to get it in to a position to put it back on our 6420 in order to haul it out of the field. I couldnt put it back on the 5075m due to the retention bolts shearing clean.

IF you wouldnt mind, could I ask you to write up a brief explanation of the trouble you have encountered with your 5075m hitch? My dealer suggested I find others who were having similar hitch problems. I truly believe Deere has made a big mistake converting to these lateral release pawls. I would appreciate anything you could provide. Im trying to get them to replace the lower arms with the heavy duty ones (with vertical release locks) under warranty. I told my dealer I would be happy to work with him on getting this settled, but unfortunately the decision rests with corporate. As I said earlier, I contacted the JDCCC on the issue. Im waiting to see how that turns out.

In the meantime, I have a tractor that is pretty much useless to me. I bought this one specifically to handle the mowing jobs so that I could cut down on operational hours on our larger tractors (6420 premiums), but I guess I`ll be mowing with them for now. I still cant figure out why deere would even bother with these light duty hitches when a they have a heavier duty version that is PROVEN....`been using them since the Ten and Twenty series tractors came out back in the `50s and `60s.

Im going to try to get some pics of the hitch damage and what not. I dont have the extendable arm piece, I left it at my dealership for them to look at. I think a combination of mechanical tolerance, insufficient lock-up surface on the arm, light pressure on the pawl retention spring, and lateral pressure from mowing on a grade caused the pawls to release. I think its a flaw Deere engineering failed to realize when they designed it. Just like almost all agriculutural equipment, this stuff is designed to be operated on the flat, not hilly terrain.

The tractor, other than this, has been fantastic. The cab is very nice for a smaller tractor. Im looking forward to mowing with it this summer, once we get this arm issue straightened out.

 

[AKfish]

IF you wouldnt mind, could I ask you to write up a brief explanation of the trouble you have encountered with your 5075m hitch? My dealer suggested I find others who were having similar hitch problems. I truly believe Deere has made a big mistake converting to these lateral release pawls. I would appreciate anything you could provide. Im trying to get them to replace the lower arms with the heavy duty ones (with vertical release locks) under warranty. I told my dealer I would be happy to work with him on getting this settled, but unfortunately the decision rests with corporate. As I said earlier, I contacted the JDCCC on the issue. Im waiting to see how that turns out.

Im going to try to get some pics of the hitch damage and what not. I dont have the extendable arm piece, I left it at my dealership for them to look at. I think a combination of mechanical tolerance, insufficient lock-up surface on the arm, light pressure on the pawl retention spring, and lateral pressure from mowing on a grade caused the pawls to release. I think its a flaw Deere engineering failed to realize when they designed it. Just like almost all agriculutural equipment, this stuff is designed to be operated on the flat, not hilly terrain.

The tractor, other than this, has been fantastic. The cab is very nice for a smaller tractor. Im looking forward to mowing with it this summer, once we get this arm issue straightened out.

I'd be happy to write up my experiences with the extendable draft links. They've never released or failed while I've used a 3pt implement with the tractor - but, the process to release the pawl and extend the link end is not a certain or secure exercise. I've tried to use spray lubricants - TriFlow, PBlaster, etc. - to get the spring/pawl mechanism to be more "certain" when it releases and re-latches. It's still kinda funky - IMO.

I put some of the "glitchiness" off to being new. I've got 155 hours on the tractor, now. Used it to rake, tedd and bale hay with and work a ~1,000lb rototiller and a heavier, 2,000lb Meri-Crusher (like a rototiller on steroids!). Hooking and unhooking the Meri-Crusher was the worst - backing the link ends into the draft housing and knowing/not knowing if they'd really latched. Ended up just dragging the thing with the pto off along the ground for 3-4 feet and checking the link ends.

Maybe when the paint wears off and there's just more metal on metal contact - you know - lightly oiled; not gummed up and the things should/would just click and slide and clank back in position! Then again... maybe not.

Nothing like the extendable link ends on the older, 3020-4020's or the newer 40 series that I've used recently. They're solid... you know when it pulls up - retracts and releases and you know when it drops back in and locks the link end in place!

Like to see your pictures, too.

AKfish

 

[mbarber84]

Just to give you a heads up, I got a call today from JDCCC and my contact representative. He and my salesman had a nice long chat.

They discussed my concerns and are working together to get it resolved. My dealer spoke very highly of me and my operation, and relayed to the CCC all my concerns.

Its nice to know that Deere will take an honest ear to my concerns. I`ll keep everyone posted.

AK...Im working on the pics. I will get them posted as soon as I Have a chance.

I did some more thinking on the issue, if those retention bolts sheared clean off while carrying a load that was approx. 1/2 of what the rated max load is, they must not be very good bolts...or a very good design. Those are supposed to be there as a last-ditch measure to prevent the very kind of failure I experienced. If they were designed to only hold the arms out under no pressure, thats not very good engineering foresight.

Still working on a solution to the whole thing....

 

[mbarber84]

I created these two comparison images using the John Deere Parts program

Take a look at the differences. Of special note is the motion in which the two latch systems release.

The standard duty latches move left and right, a move that could easily be accidently replicated in the field from implement movement or pressure, as well as jar and vibration from field work.

The heavy duty hitch system latches vertically, and in addition, has almost twice the amount of lock-up surface as the standard duty ones.

 

[Zebrafive]

The diagrams really help explain your link and the heavy duty link. Thanks for posting.
Totally different than my old 2030. I need to look at my new to me 6415, betting it has HD links. What I like about the 2030 is you get a very generous extention and positive lockup.

 

[mbarber84]

Zebra,

We run 2 JD 6420`s on our farm. Both of them have the stronger, vertical locking systems. They are easy to use, and provide positive lock-up everytime. The "standard duty" system on my 5075m hitch is nowhere near the quality or reliability I have come to expect from a green and yellow tractor. Im hoping I can get the problem fixed.

 

[AKfish]

After some thought on this... why offer a tractor with the lift capacity of the EH 3pt that's considerably greater than the earlier generation of comparable frame-size tractor's (2440, 2350, 2355) and match it up with extendable draft links that can't accomodate the extra weight demands?

And don't favorably compare to the earlier generation of draft links?

Pinching pennies when there's bigger money on the table...

AKfish

 

[Zebrafive]

Zebra,

We run 2 JD 6420`s on our farm. Both of them have the stronger, vertical locking systems. They are easy to use, and provide positive lock-up everytime. The "standard duty" system on my 5075m hitch is nowhere near the quality or reliability I have come to expect from a green and yellow tractor. Im hoping I can get the problem fixed.

looked at the 6415 and that is what it has too

 

[mbarber84]

Zebra, I figured it would have that type of locking system. Thats the one that should be used on the 5M series throughout the range, not just the
5105M (now 5115M)

AK, those are my exact thoughts as well. This is the point I`m hoping John Deere will notice and admit to. Hopefully they will be able to come up with a civilized solution to the problem. It was my hope that I could just order the lower arms with the stronger lock up pawls, and leave everything else the same. However, from what my dealer told me, they cant order just the arms. They have to order the entire heavy duty hitch upgrade kit which includes EVERYTHING. TO the tune of $1500.00

I find that hard to swallow. What would you do if you were running a 5105M that already had the heavy arms on it, and one of the arms got damaged? You would have to buy an entire rebuild kit?? I dont think so. Something doesnt seem right with all of this.

IT would be nice if Deere listens to our point about the hitch, and the offer a universal update for all the 5M`s with the standard hitches....(is that wishful thinking?) Id think when you buy a $42,000 tractor, heavy duty would be the main point of the whole design, especially being that its green and yellow.

Im still waiting to hear back from Deere on my problem...I`ll keep you posted.

 

[Zebrafive]

Your right the HD parts are shown on JDparts.com, but when you try to place in the cart or price them they not available thru parts.

Sometimes things not available thru parts are available from the sales side as whole goods or bundles.

I looked at the parts catalog for the 5115M and it shows the same lower links as you have as std and the HD arms as part of a kit with lift links and lift cylinders, but that kit is not available thru part either

I hope Deere steps up and repalces your lower arms and discontinues the std ones.

 

[pclausen]

I'm picking up my MY2012 5085M from the dealer today. I ordered it with the 63mm Hitch Lift Cylinders (Code 8458), which I believe means that I got the heavy duty latch system on the arms. I'll be sure to double check when I get there. I'll be pulling a very heavy Bush Hog 3209 lift type cutter, so I would hate to have this happen to me.

This is the only picture I have so far of the hitch on the new tractor, and from the angle, I can't make out if I got the regular or heavy duty latches.

 

[mbarber84]

Zebra, yes I saw that as well. I have checked with my dealer, the heavy arms are available as part of a "heavy duty 3pt hith conversion ket" which includes the lower arms, lift links, larger hydraulic cylinders, and a heavy duty top (Center) link. All to the tune of $1,500.00! I talked it over with my dealer, if Deere does not help me out with my issue, he will sell me the parts at his cost (approx. $1100) Thats not a huge savings but it helps. I was just hoping I could get ONLY the lower arms, and everything else would be fine. Im still clinging to the hope that Deere will give me some help with this problem, and as you said, hopefully Deere will stop making the standard ones as I feel they are sub-par for the kind of quality expected of a Deere machine, especially a tractor.

pclausen, nice tractor man! Unfortunately, like you said, I cant tell from the angle which type of arms those are. If they are the standard type, the unlocking tabs will slide laterally, left to right, to release the telescopic ends. If those are the ones you have, be extra careful when using them. Make sure they lock completely before going in the field. I was running a Kuhn GMD600GII HD rotary mower, (approx. 1,200lbs) when my arms failed. Let us know when you get your machine home!

 

[mbarber84]

pclausen,

I stared a little longer at your picture, and have come to the conclusion that your tractor has the STANDARD DUTY hitch system on it. I can tell by the arrangement of the 2 retention bolts that are used to keep the telescopic end from coming out of the arm.

On the standard duty model, 2 bolts are used, placed at the end of the arm and situated in-line vertically at the end of the housing.

The heavy duty model only uses 1 retention bolt.

If you take a close look at the 2 diagrams I posted earlier on this thread, you`ll see what I mean.

I hope they work out well for you, but at least you are aware that they can be an issue BEFORE you take it out in the field for a test run. I learned the hard way

 

[pclausen]

Spoke to the dealer and he verified that my tractor has the heavy duty hitch kit (in addition to the larger 63mm cylinders).

In fact, ALL MY2012 M tractors now come standard with the heavy duty hitch kit from what he was telling me. I guess they changed the design to have the 2 pins/bolts on each lower lift arms, even for the heavy duty version?

I'll check it out in greater detail when I get it home and take some pics of the pieces and post them here.

 

[mbarber84]

Thanks for the input! This means (at least to me) that Deere must have had some reservations regarding the previous designs. Hopefully that will help to get my problem fixed.

IF you have a chance, post some pics of your hitch when you get the tractor home, I`d love to see it!

 

[Zebrafive]

I too was going by the two bolts shown in the picture to conclude his has the std lower arms.

I think He can easily tell for sure just by removing the retaining bolts from one arm and removing the end link and comparing it to your post with pictures of the two versions.

I'll bet he got the std arms. I saw no change on JDparts.com to two retaining bolts for the heavy duty arms. But maybe the parts catalog needs to be updated?